Thread regarding DeVry Inc. layoffs

This is how we make it out of this

Seriously, though...if DeVry makes it out the other end of this, it needs to change some things...here are a couple of suggestions...identify our best academic program...then go out and get the very best faculty in those fields. Money should be no object. Time for research and a stipend for conference travel should be included. Then, when you get them...promote the heck out of it...to the point where someone interested in that particular field would crawl on their knees to be in the same room with that person. Of course, you'd need support staff...so you'd have to clean out the current dean of faculty and the so-called deans for academic excellence, and get real academics in there...people who understand that the secret to success is to get the very people and then turn them loose.

Original poster is @UdUMIAn-3ezd, makes a good point.

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| 6041 views | | 47 replies (last September 4, 2018) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+UjNP9Gz

47 replies (most recent on top)

What I often suggested when I worked there was to say NO more - Say no to questionable students with a history of poor grades and lots of unpaid student debt from multiple colleges going back several years, say NO when someone asks for more loans but clearly has no plan to pay them off stating "I'll deal with that later", "I'll qualify for loan forgiveness" or "that's MY problem, not yours". Say no when a student has not attended all session and suddenly wants to re-enter class at the 11th hour with no real chance of passing, and say no when someone wants to readmit after failing 12 classes in a row. This would ultimately improve their reputation more than requiring students to post laudatory reviews. Unfortunately, based on what I observed while working there and have heard since, they are going the opposite route, sacrificing academic integrity and responsible use of taxpayer dollars for keeping the enrollment numbers up while hiding the truth about low repayment rates.

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Post ID: @Gsmv+UjNP9Gz

Seriously though...identify our saddest academic program...then go out and get the very cheapest faculty in those fields. Money should be no requirement. Harassment for research and nothing for conference travel should be included. Then, when you bamboozle them...promote the heck out of it...to the point where someone interested in that particular field would crawl out on their knees to avoid the same room with that person.

Of course, you'd fire support staff....people who understand that the secret to success is to get these very people and then screw them over.

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Post ID: @hkmr+UjNP9Gz

@UjNP9Gz-fuun

Good luck, none of what you mentioned care. "Call your congressman." That is funny one!

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Post ID: @gzfr+UjNP9Gz

Do it ALL.

Have some fun...

Possible responses to this:

File an HR Grievance

File an "Unfair Labor Practice" Complaint with the National Labor Relations Board.

Contact your Congress member. Let them know what's going on.

Contact the Department of Education in your state and federal government

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Post ID: @fuun+UjNP9Gz

@8tge—why would you sacrifice this gig? Great pay for very little work. Sign me up for another 10 years. #MakeDeVryGreatAgain!!

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Post ID: @absk+UjNP9Gz

The best course of action is to do nothing and let Devry crash like ITT. The students being attracted are not worthed the efforts. The wise step is to stop entities like devry from deceiving anyone that is not equipped to handle college requirements. If devry fails it is another corrupted university that has earned the Darwin award.

If we really care about doing the right thing it is to accelerate the downfall of the unethical corporations.

Just another alternative wisdom. This is our moment to sacrifice our jobs to achieve a higher purpose. Otherwise we are as corrupt as Devry.

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Post ID: @8tge+UjNP9Gz

Possible responses to this:

  1. File an HR Grievance

  2. File an "Unfair Labor Practice" Complaint with the National Labor Relations Board.

  3. Contact your Congress member. Let them know what's going on.

  4. Contact the Department of Education in your state and federal government

  5. Do nothing and let things get worse. VPs will replace you soon anyway.

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Post ID: @8lwp+UjNP9Gz

They need full-time faculty for various accreditations. That doesn’t mean at all they they need the CURRENT, expensive senior faculty. They can easily be replaced by new, starving young Ph.Ds from third-rate schools. New blood! Half the price! Just have to get rid of the existing folks...somehow....huh. IPP. Yeah. Withdrawals as a metric. That’ll do it....yeah, that’s ethical, right? Am I right?

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Post ID: @7qlj+UjNP9Gz

@UjNP9Gz-7ken,

I am not sure the goal is to eliminate Full time faculty but may be it is a side effect.

Most managers receive financial incentives( Bonuses) proportional to the number of students in their regions in addition to the regular income .

Their IPP is directly linked to how much money they can bring from tuitions and how much money they can save from expenses.

Given that they have an incentive to keep students in the virtual or actual classroom , they come up with strategies that might not be logical to us faculty.

Greed is a powerful emotions that blocks any reasonable person to be impartial and effective. ( Financial crisis of 2008).

Humans are complicated , to deal with them one has to be Bipolar or be able to handle different conflicting thoughts.

René Descartes said "I think, therefore I am"

I say , who is the "I" you are referring to?

As there are many competing "I".

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Post ID: @7nyl+UjNP9Gz

Having faculty be responsible for student withdrawals is one of the stupidest decisions that has ever been made. This decision is a good example of misaligned responsibility and authority. Faculty have zero control over student lives and the factors that affect their remaining in school. The only way that this makes sense is as a tool to eliminate all full-time faculty.

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Post ID: @7ken+UjNP9Gz

@UjNP9Gz-7pid Thanks. I will...Curious, though...does it apply to Chamberlain as well?

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Post ID: @7fin+UjNP9Gz

@UjNP9Gz-6mdu.You want to see it in print. Just ask your local manager to show you the 2019 IPP. It is there. It is part of the teaching responsibility.

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Post ID: @7pid+UjNP9Gz

re: the joke. I couldn't believe when they rolled out CEIS100. I wonder how they still kept their accreditation while having that course in the degree program. unbelievable...

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Post ID: @7axc+UjNP9Gz

@UjNP9Gz-6mdu

I assure you it is in the new revised 2019 IPP. Faculty are are responsible for students withdrawals. All the DAA are aware of it. Some are not ready to disclose it yet.

Would love to see this in print somewhere

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Post ID: @7jqi+UjNP9Gz

Of all the boneheaded, jack-ss moves...this takes the cake! So glad I am already gone. DeVry will continue to bleed students and now they will have all the justification they will need for the next round of faculty layoffs. Faculty are not treated like professionals at DeVry. Others have said it well. I wish you all well and good luck. Have a joke for you all, based on my teaching an intro course last session:

Q: Why did they dumb down the intro courses at DeVry?

A: So that senior management could pass them, too.

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Post ID: @7jbh+UjNP9Gz

@UjNP9Gz-5krn

I assure you it is in the new revised 2019 IPP. Faculty are are responsible for students withdrawals. All the DAA are aware of it. Some are not ready to disclose it yet.

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Post ID: @6mdu+UjNP9Gz

@UjNP9Gz-3fya There are no absent minded professors anymore...not after what we've been through. If you don't keep your wits, you're gone...and sometimes even living by your wits isn't enough. Anyway, my source has been around for a long time....he's connected with the Chicago/Home Office crowd...so he would know...he might just not want to confirm...so that's a possibility.

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Post ID: @5krn+UjNP9Gz

For all faculty left. Just give students A’s and take a paycheck. NO one cares. Ride out the process take unemployment and refuse the severance. File suit and have fun with it! Write a book or paper TRASHing The place & people as much as you can for years. Live a little.... Glad I left!

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Post ID: @5vzf+UjNP9Gz

Of Course he/she doesn't know. Typical absent minded professor!

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Post ID: @3fya+UjNP9Gz

Can anyone officially document that such a policy is part of the IPP? I spoke to full time faculty member earlier today, and he doesn't know anything about it.

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Post ID: @3wvn+UjNP9Gz

As you can read from the explanation below about constructive dismissal, the law is very clear it has to be illegal not unethical. Our law do not enforce ethics but just legality or lack of.

Hence Devry can get away with it the new IPP. Very sad.

Any thoughts!

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Post ID: @3dbg+UjNP9Gz

Constructive dismissal, also known as constructive discharge or constructive termination, is a modified claim of wrongful termination. Wrongful constructive dismissal occurs when, instead of firing the employee, the employer wrongfully makes working conditions so intolerable that the employee is forced to resign. As in wrongful termination, the employer must violate the employment contract or public policy by targeting the employee. Continue below to learn more about constructive dismissal.

See FindLaw's Wrongful Termination section to learn more.

What Is Constructive Dismissal?

Most states recognize the legal concept of constructive dismissal, in which an employee quits because the working conditions have become so intolerable that he or she can no longer work for the employer. Even though the employee voluntarily quit, the employee had no reasonable alternative because of the intolerable working conditions.

The employee's resignation is overlooked for legal purposes because the employment relationship was in effect terminated involuntarily by the employer's conduct. In this situation, the resignation is treated as a firing. If the employer's actions constitute unlawful conduct or a breach of an express or implied employment contract, the employee may have a claim for wrongful constructive dismissal.

Elements of a Constructive Dismissal Claim

An employee can't simply quit and claim that he or she was constructively dismissed. For example, California requires an employee to prove that:

His or her working environment was so unusually adverse that a reasonable employee in his or her position would have felt compelled to resign, and

The employer either intended to force such resignation or had actual knowledge of the intolerable working conditions.

An employee claiming to have been constructively dismissed must show that the conditions giving rise to the resignation were sufficiently extraordinary and egregious to overcome the normal motivation of a competent and reasonable employee to remain on the job.

Generally, a continuing pattern of extraordinary and egregious conduct is required before an employee's resignation will be considered a constructive dismissal. A single negative evaluation or other isolated acts don't typically establish intolerable or unusually adverse employment conditions. However, in severe situations, a single act, such as a crime of violence by the employer against an employee or the employer's requirement that an employee commit a crime, may be enough to constitute unusually adverse conditions.

In addressing whether an employer's conduct amounts to sufficiently intolerable or egregious working conditions to permit constructive dismissal, courts focus on factors including:

Whether the employee was requested or required to participate in illegal activity;

Whether the employer duly acknowledged or investigated the employee's complaints;

The nature of the employer's illegal conduct; and

The passage of time between the allegedly illegal conduct and the employee's resignation.

Reasonable Person Standard

It's not enough for the employee to subjectively believe his or her working conditions are intolerable. Courts instead look at whether a reasonable person would find the conditions to be unusually egregious and adverse. If a reasonable person working in the employee's position wouldn't find the conditions intolerable, the employee's resignation will be treated as a voluntary resignation by the employee, even if the employee believes that he or she can't work under the conditions imposed by the employer.

Employer Knowledge

In general, in order to prove that the employer forced the employee to resign, an employee must show that the employer either intended to create or maintain intolerable working conditions or that the employer had knowledge of such conditions. If an employer should have known about the intolerable conditions, but didn't, a constructive dismissal generally wouldn't occur.

Employees generally must notify management or someone in a position of authority of the conditions so the employer has an opportunity to correct the situation. If the employee doesn't inform the employer, and the employer hasn't independently learned of the intolerable working conditions, the employee generally won't be able to prove a constructive dismissal claim.

Considerations

Employees are typically presumed to be employed in an at-will employment relationship. This means that the employee can be terminated at any time and with or without cause. Generally, the law doesn't require that employers treat their employees fairly or provide a stress-free environment. Instead, employers are required not to act in a discriminatory manner or in an otherwise unlawful manner. Absent improper or unlawful conduct or breach of an employment contract on the part of an employer, courts generally won't allow employees to bring constructive dismissal claims.

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Post ID: @2mpu+UjNP9Gz

Ok, I am glad you have left. Some us are still with Devry. We have a challenging ethical and financial dilemma to resolve.

Our job description has changed from being a professor to a salesman. We need to keep students for Devry to pay the electric bill.

All of us have bills to pay and family to take care of.

We are not young anymore. Hard to get another Job ( very unlikely to be hired anywhere when you pass 50).

What are our options?

I resolved that question. The government is allowing the students to get a loan knowing full well they do not qualify. Who I am to challenge that. If I let them pass, why should I feel bad, someone more powerful than I, gave them the money to come waist at DeVry. Since it is capitalist society we live in, Money talks , other considerations are just noise.

My family and my mortgage are more important than ethics. If we challenge the new IPP we will be fired . What good comes out it. We need to comply and entice the students by any means regardless if it is unethical. Ethics does not pay bills.

Any suggestions, support!

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Post ID: @2mka+UjNP9Gz

Does DeVry have an ethical HR department? No. Has anyone ever heard a sound from HR? No.

Open Door Policy?

Benefits explained?

The place is a joke.

Who works in HR?

The VP of HR is joke.

Glad I left.

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Post ID: @2vpp+UjNP9Gz

-2zho

How does it help. Termination or resignation?

Is there a legal way to pursue deVry for termination ?

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Post ID: @2rzt+UjNP9Gz

"In employment law, constructive dismissal, also called constructive discharge or constructive termination, occurs when an employee resigns as a result of the employer creating a hostile work environment. Since the resignation was not truly voluntary, it is, in effect, a termination."

This actually happened to me--when they determined I would be commuting over 30 miles to a campus in another state for 3 students...I'd had enough and quit.

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Post ID: @2zho+UjNP9Gz

"Constructive Discharge"

I like the sound of it.

Any legal mind that can help explain the term. Thank you.

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Post ID: @2abz+UjNP9Gz

The system is setup to encourage fake grades. I have no doubt in mind. IPP are crafted by the top managers ie provost .

We do not work for a university or a diploma mills , we work for a a wh--e house.

We need to have p--n added to the media gallery so students do not withdraw. It is the only item that sells given the students population we attract.

I think we are in the twilight zone!

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Post ID: @2xjo+UjNP9Gz

2qzs

Amen. In order to achieve high evaluations, faculty could not give accurate grades or critique students realistically. Grades and estimations of quality were vastly inflated--a problem that grew worse with the threat of being fired looming ever larger and more ominously. Quality could not be assessed, especially online with so many students, insufficient time, and a predatory culture (both students and administrators).

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Post ID: @2qkm+UjNP9Gz

All of the Devry actual classroom policies - not the ones stated in writing but the ones reinforced by managers in emails and meetings - promote and encourage unethical grading practices. If an adjunct gives too many low grades or fails too many students, they are simply not given any more work. The system is setup to encourage fake grades.

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Post ID: @2qzs+UjNP9Gz

2xgh

HR is still charged with "limiting the company's exposure to liability." Thus, there will so some consideration for faculty unless faculty will not pursue "remedy."

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Post ID: @2wbe+UjNP9Gz

2ivc

"I don't think HR would let this happen"

In my experience HR was never there for the protection of faculty--they were merely the arm of DeVry administration. They could barely sort out their own mistakes, much less rise to a just cause.

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Post ID: @2zgh+UjNP9Gz

assuming this is true...and if it is, I'm not sure it's legal...but if it is...it's a great way to keep costs down...Faculty lose points and precious dollars for student withdrawals.

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Post ID: @2lqd+UjNP9Gz

I don't think HR would let this happen. Tying faculty evaluation to student withdrawals would create a "Hostile Work Environment" because it would promote or encourage unethical grading practices. This is not in the university or faculty's best interests, and it would be grounds for Class-Action "Constructive Discharge" remedies. The scale of this would violate the Purchase Agreement.

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Post ID: @2ivc+UjNP9Gz

No need to give an A they will earn it .

Just inform the students about course hero.

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Post ID: @2ibr+UjNP9Gz

Who’s the id--t that would put a metric for withdrawals on an IPP? The faculty will give out free A’s to keep their jobs. Good for DeVry for keeping up with all the unethical standards.

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Post ID: @2fon+UjNP9Gz

1utp--When was this announced? I guess that is why I never attend meetings. They dump this kind of crap on you. What a joke if true. How can faculty be held accountable for student withdrawals? What moron thought that was a good idea? I bet it was LB!

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Post ID: @1vso+UjNP9Gz

-1bhj

Yeah, I totally agree. we were just told the new IPP has a metric for withdrawals. Any student that leaves deVry will count negatively against the the professor IPP and evaluations.

I think we have breached a new low in mediocrity and stupidity . Management want Faculty to keep students in the class using any means. I think I will hire Stormy Daniel to come sit in the class so I can keep the students from leaving.

This is an insult to any one that has a Ph.D still working for this wh--e house!

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Post ID: @1utp+UjNP9Gz

1dlj

DeVry became a symbol of fraud when they swapped out the Omega-3 education for toxic sludge and charged enormous sums to desperately suffering people--who received no value from what was sold to them--who, indeed, were harmed.

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Post ID: @1bhj+UjNP9Gz

"Snake Oil Salesman." lets walk the memory lane.

The 1800s saw thousands of Chinese workers arriving in the United States as indentured laborers to work on the Transcontinental Railroad. According to historian Richard White's book Railroaded, about 180,000 Chinese immigrated to the United States between 1849 and 1882. The vast majority of the workers came from peasant families in southeastern China and were signed to contracts that ran up to five years for relatively low wages (compared with their white counterparts), wrote David Haward Bain in his book Empire Express.

Among the items the Chinese railroad workers brought with them to the States were various medicines — including snake oil. Made from the oil of the Chinese water snake, which is rich in the omega-3 acids that help reduce inflammation, snake oil in its original form really was effective, especially when used to treat arthritis and bursitis. The workers would rub the oil, used for centuries in China, on their joints after a long hard day at work. The story goes that the Chinese workers began sharing the oil with some American counterparts, who marveled at the effects.

So how did a legitimate medicine become a symbol of fraud?

The same scenario happened with Devry , how did a niche Institute become the symbol of fraud?

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Post ID: @1dlj+UjNP9Gz

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