Thread regarding IBM layoffs

Read items 2 and 3 at this link

https://www.canadaemploymenthumanrightslaw.com/2010/07/working-notice-rarely-the-perfect-solution/

Forced relocation is considered constructive dismissal.

Working notice can be a max of 1-8 weeks depending on duration of employment,

after which the full severance due minus the working notice is due as a lump sum.

I'd sign or agree to nothing until I at least discussed the options with a Canadian lawyer who deals with employment law

3bzu: A lawyer will tell you that duty to mitigate is very important to winning or losing severance. So yes - you have to show you are looking and can not find reasonable salary in same industry. But I’ve also read tha t the burden is on IBM to prove you have done done your duty to mitigate.

I agree with the other poster that you referenced. They’ve said everything a lawyer has told me.

Excellent post 3xgu! Given IBM's delay tactics it would seem that hiring a lawyer on contingency, although I understand they take around 30% of the settlement, may be the way to go in order not to stress about the mounting legal fees. The challenge is finding a good lawyer who won't want to settle for less than full severance (2 yrs for those with long service) after a few months.

One big question I have is about the "failure to mitigate" part of the law: If I'm fighting for my Severance over let's say 1 year., do I have to be able to show that I am actively seeking employment every week of that year?

I am a retired IBM Canada employee living in Montreal. I have kept in touch with several previous co-workers who took the legal route to recover what they felt they lost with premature dismissals. In all cases, IBM settled before the cases came to trial. The settlement terms keep both parties from saying anything more about the case. All I could get them to say is to answer my question: Were you satisfied with the results? In all but one case, they were satisfied with the results. One told me that they would have come out better if they had just signed the termination agreement and took the severance pay. Saying that much was probably a violation of their agreement, but I doubt IBM would doing anything about that.

In Canada, you are not an "at will" employee and not deemed to have quit if you do not comply with an order to relocate (with sympathies to US employees who abide by different laws).

When you get a lawyer you will discover:

1. Forced relocation is not legal in Canada unless you signed something with IBM to say it is OK. Sadly, many work-from-home employees did sign just such a waiver. If so, you really, really need a lawyer.

2. If you fight: IBM will typically file legal paperwork and create other delays to increase your legal costs and delay settlement until just before the legal severance deadline. Then they pay.

3. As a person fighting IBM, you will spend from $20K to $100K in legal bills to get your entitled severance. IBM is fully aware of this. They know it is cheaper to offer you 30-50% of what you are entitled to. It makes financial sense for you to accept.

4. When settling, IBM will insist on a gag order so that no one will know what they did in #2 and #2.

Only word-of-mouth exchanges between friends and colleagues lets us know about this tactic used by IBM. Only someone with adequate financial resources can take on IBM in Canada and go to trial. In most cases, they win. There have been only a handful of such cases where the settlements are made public. Your lawyer will tell you about them.

Consider this: After paying legal costs and not working for an extended period of time, you will end up ahead by quitting and taking another job - as unjust as that may seem to you. Run the numbers and give this option some thought.

There is one exception: You are going to retire. If so, hang in there and make IBM pay. This is the one scenario where you can receive proper severance from IBM Canada. Spend as little as you can in legal fees, and be patient.

Oh man, the old co-location scam again is back again.

I think this is an easy way to do some housecleaning on the cheap for the short term.

Just like Atlanta, my center has tried this several times and its never amounted to anything.

It scares a few back into the office for a weeks or so, then its back to wfh before you know it.

Layoff avoided

Yahoo did this crap too years ago and it was an epic fail to say the least.

Eventually the board asked CEO Mayer to step down. (with a golden chute of course)

Who Moved My Cheese? << Ginni and other IBMers need to read this book.

Constructive dismissal is true but they are giving 6 months working severance which is allowed legally and meets the minimum statutes. So they get away with it from what it looks like. A lawyer would have to say otherwise. I’ve heard they wait people out in court until they get new jobs and then the court reduces severance award based on new job / salary. As far as going along and then eventually working from home again, that only works if you are in the same city.

IANAL but changing an employee's work location, ie requiring them to move, is grounds for constructive dismissal in Canada; it's as if the employer fired the employee without cause. It would follow that an employee would be entitled to a minimum of statutory severance and could make a case for much more based on the governing provincial law and/or court precedents.

They tried this in one of the Atlanta offices last year and now over a year later >90% of those that were told to report to the office are back working from home and the call center where they reported to is about 30% occupied. A couple more RA’s and the place will be empty. So just give it time, it will fail on its own.