Thread regarding Bombardier layoffs

Show them what we're made off here in Ulster!

Dear colleagues

Here in Belfast we have at the time of this story roughly around 4000 employees, I will disregard the CLF at this juncture, out of those 4000 employees around 600 are managerial graded positions which equates to approxiametly 1 manager for every 6/7 employees, this is public sector type levels and as proven totally unsustainable but in reality we have managers in charge of up to 100 reports and managers with no direct reports at all! They have asked us to be more efficient and to challange the way things are done but heres my challange to them, quantify how you expect ordinary shopfloor workers to change the mindset of instituionalised bullying management here in Belfast when we have so many layers of management, beurocracy and red tape to go through? Inefficient is too kind a word to use but it will have to suffice on this occasion, managers dont lose their jobs for being inefficient or even incompetant they are just moved around departments until they reach the point were they can get their golden handshakes and ride off into the sunset very well off and probably a BUPA sponsored anal exam for them and their entire family whilst having offered next to almost nothing in the way of progressing the company in their later years or in some cases ever.

We as a shopfloor unit are the best that there is here in Belfast we continually fix the many mistakes made by these low wage alternatives and due to our humilty we tend not to get all high five about it, we just want to work for a company who respect us and treat us fairly and pay us fairly.

In recent years we have tried to challange the norm, tried to expose the inefficiency of Belfasts management structure but Canada are either turning a blind eye or the information isnt getting through,some of us have put our heads above the horizon and have saved Bombardier hundreds of thousands of dollars through using the xcell system but yet we receive very little in gratuity whilst our many layers of management take most of the plaudits and also a performance related bonus, we take home £17.50 for our effort!

Bombardier management here in Belfast are too institutionalised too arrogant and too blasie about our current position, maybe theyre all supremly confident in their own ability which in my humble opinion is rather misplaced as I wouldnt trust a majority of them to run a bath let alone an ailing aircraft company, none of them have what it takes to steer us through this, none of them have the experience nor the desire,and what is the retoric being convayed to the shopfloor, we must work harder, we must take paycuts, we must work longer hours yet we are the guys and girls who clock in and out, we are the producers who create profits yet we are the ones who suffer the vitriol from an over payed underskilled heirarchy that stands in the way of progress.Maybe its a plain fact that the way in which Bombardier and previously Shorts in Belfast have a "jobs for the boys" type promotion system for the past 40-50 years that managers now feel beyond reproach even through the worst Bombardier crisis in its history.Michael Ryan calls them to management meetings every so often, im not sure if Michael burdens most of the worries to a certain point before taking them to task or its due to the fact it takes 3 days to brief his entire harem due to the sheer numbers involved but either way theres a real lack of urgency amongst the management and it shows us that our fate is sealed.

We have overheard and seen various managers salivating about how they were going to just take voluntary redundancies rather than stay and earn their wages and try and get us out of this mess whilst others are saying its not Belfasts problem as we are making better than predicted returns, just what is the story? we post profits year on year as a unit but not enough!Again I challange Bombardier to convince the shopfloor staff of Belfast what it is that you are going to do to help us? We dont buy your "higher value" work b---s---, work is work and we should be fighting to keep everything here.

I have a suspicion it will be business as usual for Belfast, the same old out of date and out of touch heirarchy of managment with more layers than an onion continue to coin in the wages for doing absolutely nothing constructive other than seeing out their days with the hope of a big pay out. On the other hand the rest of us, we made a huge mistake by allowing Bombardier to use CLF, Bombardier and our unions are the only ones who have really benfitted from the CLF by increasing their membership subsidies to central headquarters which in itself is an utter disgrace and abuse of their power and all full time voting members should be urged to contact the head office of Unite and GMB and ask why our union take money from our colleagues who have no voting rights and who cannot take industrial action should it arise which are the basic fundemental rights of being a union member.

Its like this some of us have been here a long time, a lifetime in fact and have been through some real tough times, there is an atmosphere within the company now that can never be redressed, we know it and you certainly know it, our jobs are destined for Mexico, Morrocco, China or some other cheap labour ghetto as Bombardier have brought in butchers like jim vounassis who are only interested in the bottom line and profit margins, he has history here in Northern Ireland as the guy who shut the Baker Hughes factory inspite of the huge governent grants the company received over the years and the best efforts of our goverment to keep the jobs here, I very much suspect thats were we are heading with Bombardier the only difference is that we are not gullible enough to think that a 20% reduction will save our jobs longer term, nor am I prepared to take pay cuts, longer working hours or any changes to my terms and conditions of employment under any circumstances nor would the vast majority of Belfast, you see we think Bombardiers Belfast management are full of sh-- to be honest but dont feel I am singling out just belfast as I think Bellamare and the rest of the board are full of sh-- also, big men with expensive suits and designer y-fronts are not exactly sending shivers down to my toes nor will I stand for this 20% contempteous figure one moment longer, we have a saying in Belfast "youll not get a wing", its an old saying from generations ago but it rings very true literally at this present time.

Personally I dont want to see any of us losing our jobs but its going to happen, we have chinless wonders pretending to represent us both in the unions and government. All we can hope for is with the death of Bombardier we see a rise in local entrepreneurs willing to fill the voids left behind by this debt ridden, tax dodging, public funded private parasite.

The times are a changing and the small people, the ordinary people, the decent people need to stand up and fight these corporate whores not each other! We have started the process already by rejecting that ridiculous pay offer, we have nothing to lose now our jobs are going but we must stick together and we can beat them, im not offering job security here but neither are they but what is on offer is the sweet taste of justice, this company brought no aerospace experience whatsoever to the table when they bought shorts they then chased off Boeing and other 3rd party work out of sheer arrogance and with no regard for a future here, they have drained us of skills and money for decades and now they think they're going to just dump us like were some cheap tart. Lets beat it right up them and show them what we're made off here in Ulster!

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| 3031 views | | 8 replies (last October 30, 2016) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+K18KSHt

8 replies (most recent on top)

To Dixie Dee.. i take it your an ex shipyard worker. If you worked harder when the going was good tells me you filled your boots with ot and done f--k all like most. If you hate the place as much as you say then leave.. its easy, just tell your boss youve had enough and walk out!! Oh thats right the company "owes you" redundancy seeing as you worked so hard, catch yourself on.

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Post ID: @6pxj+K18KSHt

It's 'made of' not 'made off' - made off suggests leaving, i.e. customers have made off elsewhere and are now buying their aircraft somewhere else leaving us f--- all do. It's ok though, if it makes you feel better just blame the management...

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Post ID: @5etc+K18KSHt

What about the work outsourced to eire composites. Global composite components. Hardly cheaper labour. The workers do own the company, problem is no one sticks together. 9 hr job in 8 hrs petty nonsense as all the hours get moved here there and everywhere anyway. so even if you do perform, all your good efforts / hours get manipulated to under performing areas and you still are told your not making the grade. It would appear people do not know what they are doing and i am not referring to the shop floor and also some support roles. not to mention some good battle hardened employees that were discriminated against during the extermination phase even though they knew composite manufacturing inside out. Composite layup, not semi skilled. 0, 90, 45 +/-1 DEG. Measuring out as all the tools are crap, periphery bars, scribe lines, make do packers everywhere, pre cut plies wrong size, measure and cut them to fit, bagging procedures. critical process a lot of it hardly semi skilled. All operators standing at the tool requesting engineering support for every problem you fix for them. plys to big, bars need located, tool room, rubber intensifiers short, stop need engineering. everyone needs to stick together. keep a good diary. unequal distribution of wealth is the issue. most level 3 and above need approx 30 percent pay cut, at least. no bonus unless all employees benefit also. Manufacturing aircraft metallic or composite is not rocket science, although most at a certain level would have you believe it is. IT IS NOT. A lot of individuals do not share knowledge and a lot of the workers hardly see a proper drawing never mind reviewing any specs, and having the opportunity to see how things should be done as per procedure on the stupid outdated contradicting internal super net. Or what virtification is of a raw component during the stage where the composition of the component becomes solid. That doesn't matter now. point is it is a toxic place. no equality, the list could go forever. To end, Pay cuts needed for the rocket scientists, to much corporate bloating, how can there be such a mess with the world class A-E-S system that goes straight to to top every day for all the problems, costs etc are supposed to be actioned. Need a problem solving sheet for that one. And a team of rocket scientists. And a budget. check out nano socialism people. Remember the more you give of yourself, going that extra mile means nothing. So why do it. They don't. o before I forget most companies that manufacture composite aircraft components, primary, secondary etc require a massive increase in inspection due to the nature of the processes and the traceability of raw materials. list could go on and on.

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Post ID: @2jqq+K18KSHt

What about the work outsourced to eire composites. Global composite components. Hardly cheaper labour. The workers do own the company, problem is no one sticks together. 9 hr job in 8 hrs petty nonsense as all the hours get moved here there and everywhere anyway. so even if you do perform, all your good efforts / hours get manipulated to under performing areas and you still are told your not making the grade. It would appear people do not know what they are doing and i am not referring to the shop floor and also some support roles. not to mention some good battle hardened employees that were discriminated against during the extermination phase even though they knew composite manufacturing inside out. Composite layup, not semi skilled. 0, 90, 45 +/-1 DEG. Measuring out as all the tools are crap, periphery bars, scribe lines, make do packers everywhere, pre cut plies wrong size, measure and cut them to fit, bagging procedures. critical process a lot of it hardly semi skilled. All operators standing at the tool requesting engineering support for every problem you fix for them. plys to big, bars need located, tool room, rubber intensifiers short, stop need engineering. everyone needs to stick together. keep a good diary. unequal distribution of wealth is the issue. most level 3 and above need approx 30 percent pay cut, at least. no bonus unless all employees benefit also. Manufacturing aircraft metallic or composite is not rocket science, although most at a certain level would have you believe it is. IT IS NOT. A lot of individuals do not share knowledge and a lot of the workers hardly see a proper drawing never mind reviewing any specs, and having the opportunity to see how things should be done as per procedure on the stupid outdated contradicting internal super net. Or what virtification is of a raw component during the stage where the composition of the component becomes solid. That doesn't matter now. point is it is a toxic place. no equality, the list could go forever. To end, Pay cuts needed for the rocket scientists, to much corporate bloating, how can there be such a mess with the world class A-E-S system that goes straight to to top every day for all the problems, costs etc are supposed to be actioned. Need a problem solving sheet for that one. And a team of rocket scientists. And a budget. check out nano socialism people. Remember the more you give of yourself, going that extra mile means nothing. So why do it. They don't.

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Post ID: @2pmf+K18KSHt

To the wanker above, I f---ing hate the place - it's not the place it used to be, not by a country mile! We worked harder and were happier when the going was good. Your slight about making an hour on a job shows how foolish you are, the balance of directs to indirects has never been so even in the history of the company and the indirects that are all paid more money for doing f--- all is where the big savings are to be had in tough times. You clearly do not understand how business works, but then it seems the organisation as a whole has that problem too - according to certain aviation analysts. Your comment blaming the shipyard guys for the demise of the shipyard and now shorts is a brave statement, perhaps you would like to tell us your name so we can verify how you believe you have the expertise to make it. Most of the guys that came from the shipyard are workers, and time served in the traditional sense of the word, unlike some of the butchers, bakers and candlestick makers employed by the company back in 2000! As for your comment about filling in a VR form and getting out - I tried TWICE! They keep me because I know my job and nobody else does - hardly a sign of a flexible world class organisation is it? No, I'll muddle on until they take the hump and put me out, and I'll be happy once again. Yes I'll have to take a job that perhaps pays less, requires me to work harder or needs me to work longer hours, but I'm not afraid of any of that if it means I get away from the poisonous toxic atmosphere that lives in there. Your statement leads me to believe that you are afraid of the above, and if I get that impression I'm sure your next employer will too. Good luck brown nosing with real management in the future.

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Post ID: @1yep+K18KSHt

Here is a thought. If you dont like how the company is run or the conditions, fill in a voluntary redundancy form and then find yourself a job that is better than the one you currently have. In reality what you will find is a minimum wage job working 45 hrs a week also working bell to bell and the minute you open your mouth to complain you get marched out the door and replaced by someone else. If more workers actually worked instead of sitting in the tea room or smoking 40 cigs a day outside complaining that they have been asked to finish a 9hr job in 8hrs then maybe, just maybe the company wouldnt be in the position it is now. But then again its not their fault the place is going the same way as the shipyard as they were also there when it went down the toilet and management there were the problem also. Its always someone elses fault. Oh and before you go off on one, im shopfloor, just fed up with underperformers moaning instead of doing the job they are paid to do.

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Post ID: @1wxf+K18KSHt

The Senior spineless Unite union representatives, both in Bombardier and the Antrim road Belfast are in bed with the company.

They have taken to votes to go in and talk to management the first vote the members give them permission to go in and talk.

The union came back with a longer working week and a pay cut.

The second vote they were told on no uncertain term's that the members did not support any more talk's. Mickey M.,

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Post ID: @keb+K18KSHt

Ulster or not, there is nothing you can do once the wheels are set in motion. Always remember who owns the company, it's not the workers. I am on a shop floor worker as well.

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Post ID: @gnv+K18KSHt

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