Thread regarding Intel Corp. layoffs

Opinion from Semiwiki about the breakup.

If we’re demanding that the US have its own foundry company, why not start from a blank sheet? Instead of committing the cardinal engineering error of writing a solution (Intel) into the spec instead of a requirement (we want our own foundry), create a new company. After all, isn’t that what the US does best ? And give the US government a stake if it’s putting up funding – a real, financial stake and not one in micromanaging employment policies. Split the foundry completely off from Intel and get rid of the current conflict of interest with Intel’s product groups. Recall some lessons from the SIA about industry collaboration and pull in talent from other companies. What you end up with may be 80 or 90% from Intel, but it needs to be a fresh start.

It’s often argued that Intel’s product and design groups gain some unique advantage from having close collaboration with Intel’s fabs or that they wouldn’t be competitive without this link. That certainly held in the past, but is far from certain today. Some claim Intel’s design teams are world class and others that they aren’t. Looking from outside with no direct knowledge, it all seems rather confusing and contradictory. Yet we know that for over 40 years Intel have reliably designed and produced some of the most complex, fastest chips seen. We’ve also seen AMD survive and thrive moving from internal fabs to TSMC. So what are we worried about here?

If you think Intel foundry shouldn’t be split off, just remember this: the risk that Intel becomes a follower, second best in everything it does. Intel will be behind TSMC in foundry, nVidia in AI and arguably AMD in x86. Is that what we really want for Intel – to be everyone’s favorite second source?

By all means have a US national foundry champion. Just do it properly. And don’t call it Intel. Let the Intel product group focus and return to its historic excellence. Shoehorning today’s Intel into the IDM 2.0 model won’t help Intel survive. And it won’t ultimately help the US.

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| 1782 views | | 10 replies (last December 28, 2024) | Reply
Post ID: @OP+1w5GmXZo

10 replies (most recent on top)

Always remember that Semiwiki is an anti-Intel site.

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Post ID: @7ozl+1w5GmXZo

I think using tariffs is a far better approach than chasing China and other mercantilist countries (mostly in that region) down the rat hole of corporate socialism.

Continuing to blow of the national debt trying to outprint China is a fools errand, unless one is ok with destroying the dollar so it can be replaced with some new currency.

Because that is the path all those countries are on, with Japan in the lead and China in a big hurry to catch up.

Stop trying to pick corporate winners (which is really just pandering state-ism) and instead use tariffs to enable trade which is actually 'fair'. Take away the incentives for companies to offshore. The companies are not the enemy, they are merely doing what makes economic sense to their individual situation.

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Post ID: @4mmk+1w5GmXZo

@pmy... well comrade so you want the US to start doing exactly what we complain about with China? Government subsidies of industry. Let's face it, Intel isn't the company it used to be and probably never will be again. Intel started its foundry business over a decade ago. This isn't a new concept. The reality is that no one wants to work with Intel. Intel can't blame anyone else for its problems. It had more than enough capitol to stay ahead in process technology it is just badly managed with a toxic culture. Big layoffs starting in 15/16 and now 24 have gutted the talent. The current Intel isn't worth wasting my tax dollars on.

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Post ID: @4yqx+1w5GmXZo

The government needs to govern and not get involved in business. It is not the government’s charter to get involved in business and it always fails badly when they do. The phrase stay in your lane is hated on this site but in this case it really makes sense.

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Post ID: @4tms+1w5GmXZo

The problem is that you are bringing together two things that are just not working out (the US government and Intel) and somehow expecting that to work out.

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Post ID: @3qyo+1w5GmXZo

There have been a number of public/private partnership companies in the semi space over the years.

Japan is doing that right now with Rapidus, and it happens because of the outsized capital requirements for getting to (and staying at) lead node.

The days of x86 monopoly in compute are really gone at this point, and only if Foundry could gain dozens and dozens of customers could it get to the scale needed to fund the node development, to remain leading node.

This is the current strategy and it is in fact going very slowly. Combined with the excess fab and hiring spree that happened over the past few years, that puts Intel at risk.

A person could think of it as a bailout, but it is really just a takeover, and the government is the only entity which can provide the sustained capital needs for the years it will ACTUALLY take to ramp Foundry customers to a self-sustaining level of operations.

The Board and ELT were delusional to think that the current state of Intel Products and x86 could fund what they were doing with Foundry.

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Post ID: @pmy+1w5GmXZo

Because the government is public sector and doesn’t “create” new companies. The best the government can do is fund a NASA for advanced chip research, maybe fund a consortium. The chips act is a little different, and subsidies existing companies to manufacture on American soil, which is ok. Doesn’t really pick winners or loses, a lot of foreign owned companies got money, as well. In Intels case, it’s a life safer, but Intel may still drown. Then you’re talking government bailout.

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Post ID: @zdc+1w5GmXZo

I'd agree that x86 is on the way out, but that is all the more reason to split the company.

The fabs will be here long after x86 is a memory.

A really bold move would be to nationalize Foundry, as a Industry/Govt partnership.

It's been done before, with a lot of success.

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Post ID: @klw+1w5GmXZo

Because Intel Products as a separate entity would be sooo competitive. This is the same group that launched

Arrow Lake - worse performance than last gen
Gaudi 3 - no customers
Battlemage - no margins

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Post ID: @nsw+1w5GmXZo

Historic excellence?

Group that has been seeking rent on x86 and left behing by new wave of products. This comment is delusional.

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Post ID: @eoc+1w5GmXZo

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