What do you think?
Is there is a better chance of SAS offering another VRBP or layoffs more likely? Or maybe they'll just tread water for a while until us old guys get tired of waiting for a package and finally retire?
I'm hoping for a VRBP but realistically I am afraid there is too much downside for SAS to offer it again.
I believe SAS is waiting on the “outside help” to recommend where to “cut costs”.
It would take several months to study SAS and make such recommendations, and we don’t know when they started.
When they finish, they will present the CEO with a list of recommendations, some of which will be implemented.
I expect no VRBP, but layoffs with decent severance.
Sales figures are imprecise, but it's possible to identify products that make little to no profit. If I were working on one of those, I'd be planning my next career move.
Ok - bonuses have been paid.
Sooo...now... VRBP? Layoffs?
What’s ki-ling SAS is not its employees, but its failure to innovate against open-source competition. SAS competes against free software, so its revenues have declined.
Of course, it’s true that some old folks are slackers who put in the minimum amount of work. But that’s true of some young folks too. There are slackers of all ages.
Furthermore, older employees count their money, figuring how much they need to retire. If they don’t have enough, they keep working. For that reason, many of us who were eligible for buyouts didn't take them.
I left SAS without a package, because I was unable to do good work — certainly not good enough to compete against open source. I suggested innovations, but got slapped down for my trouble. Insecure managers took suggestions as challenges to their authority. They wanted to keep doing things the way they had always been done.
This failure to innovate is what’s ki-ling SAS — not the employees.
All of the ‘I’m just waiting for a package’ people are the parasites tearing down the company - you’re not ‘working’ any more you’re checking in (if SAS is lucky) or you’ve gone fully remote skipping meetings not participating and just sitting around talking about the good ole days - grab yourself a mirror you are what is ki-ling SAS.
"This next week will tell if a VRBP coming -- Open Enrollment email should come out, probably Monday or Tuesday. If one is coming, should be announced there first like it was in 2018. Fingers crossed for you all."
Email is out. No mention of VRBP. Sincerely sorry for those who were hoping for one. I guess that there is still a chance it comes out in a separate email, but time is running out for them if planning one for this year.
"Hoping against hope for a nice surprise in October .. like in 2018."
This next week will tell if a VRBP coming -- Open Enrollment email should come out, probably Monday or Tuesday. If one is coming, should be announced there first like it was in 2018. Fingers crossed for you all.
Hoping against hope for a nice surprise in October .. like in 2018.
Given that:
The chatter from SAS about an IPO in 2025 has completely stopped, and
Growth and profitably targets almost surely won't be hit in 2024
maybe they will go ahead and offer VRBP to book the cost in 2024, and then move into 2025 with several hundred less employees and a big tick down in average age?
100%!:
"These mistakes and stories will only be memories. Good luck to all."
still need to work for now, but am definitely ready to enjoy retirement. layoffs, vrbp, windfalls (yeah right), or just very ordinary retirement. these mistakes and stories will only be memories. good luck to all
I think most would wait for the large workforce reduction due to sale.
"Keep working until given an incentive to leave (aka a VRBP). Especially those who had enough seniority for the previous one, but did not meet the arbitrary age requirement."
I thought the consensus was that a VRBP was extremely unlikely. Windfall from a sale or IPO is also extremely unlikely. That leaves only a layoff with severance. That also seems unlikely for most (even if they did a 20% reduction, 8/10 are safe).
Maybe after enough extra years of working simply hoping to score a package, one might finally come to the conclusion that they have enough and it's time to enjoy retirement.
Keep working until given an incentive to leave (aka a VRBP). Especially those who had enough seniority for the previous one, but did not meet the arbitrary age requirement.
"This has been covered already. Several times."
I missed it then. What was the conclusion?
“Will the people ready to retire, but waiting for a VRBP, finally accept that there won't be another one once Open Enrollment comes out without one, and finally leave?”
This has been covered already. Several times.
Will the people ready to retire, but waiting for a VRBP, finally accept that there won't be another one once Open Enrollment comes out without one, and finally leave? Or will they just decide to hang on and hope to get laid off? In their defense, a potential free year of salary is hard to walk away from.
Quiet in the sense that they made people signed NDAs not to disclose details.
They can't keep it totally quiet because there is always someone that will talk anonymously. I didn't make it up about the quiet and I have no insider's information but it has been reported in the media that IBM is trying to keep it quiet. Usually IBM blabs to the media about the layoffs themselves proudly but this time they're trying to be low key.
IBM’s layoff has been reported in the media.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/18/ibm_job_cuts/
It’s “quiet” in the sense that IBM made no announcement. So the number of people affected is not publicly known.
SAS is different from public companies. SAS has never had a mass layoff. The CEO hates them and will do all he can to avoid one.
SAS has only done small layoffs and VRBPs — perhaps just enough to ensure profitability.
I hope everyone stays safe who needs to, and everyone gets a package who wants one.
@bely+1upGNaTN Apparently not keeping it that quiet if you know
Amazon, Cisco, IBM are all having big laying offs recently. IBM has big layoffs this week but keeping it quiet. I hope SAS does not have a big layoffs before the holidays.
Hang in there. Good luck.
What in the sam hill is goin' on in here?
You - over there.
And you - go over there.
BREAK IT UP.
It’s odd that the defense is so rabid.
I say old chum, it is more likely that monkeys will fly out of my posterior.
This thread is just pointless bickering.
Y'all better get back to work before your manager finds you slacking again
If you can take the liberty of taking this quote:
"With your attitude you are fortunate to still be employed. See how well your family does then."
and subsequently referencing it to look like he wrote this:
"It would be a real shame if something bad happened to your family...".
Then, you missed your calling. You need to be a modern day "journalist" working for the main stream media.
@8zzd+1upGNaTN That has been almost exactly my experience as well.
Early on had to bust it. Later on earned enough trust across company to do what is needed including doing what it takes to stay relevant.
Many of us did make careers at SAS. We often did 50 to 60 hour weeks between
: 35-to-40 hours normal “manager pleasing” workload
+ 5-to-10 additional hours to “do things right”
+ 5-to-10 ongoing learning on our own time/dime
Personally spent 20 years in a 30+ year SAS developer career doing some variation of the above schedule.
Another 10 years were spent in positions where my expertise was valued enough that I got to do some of the education/innovation during normal work hours. When you work for solid, competent managers where trust is a currency then this is possible.
I have more valuable things to do with my time than give you a grammar lesson, but here we go, since you clearly don't understand that every use of double quotes is not to indicate a direct quote.
You said:
"With your attitude you are fortunate to still be employed. See how well your family does then."
and I rephrased that as:
"It would be a real shame if something bad happened to your family...".
to clarify that this is what you were really saying. You can interpret this as you like. I'm interpreting your confusion as: "I'm not very well-read and don't recognize the use of quotes for dialogue when I see it." Maybe it will be clearer to someone more literate. If not, not my problem.
We can all agree that SAS won’t fund the continuing education of its employees. SAS does offer occasional training courses, but those have never been sufficient to maintain competitive skills.
“Salary gets you 8 hours of honest work, not a blank check.”
That’s right. SAS gives you a job; that’s all. If you want a career, that requires extra hours to keep your skills sharp.
Competitors for your job live in third-world countries. So you can’t compete on price. If you won’t compete on skills, why should anyone hire you?
This point is particularly pertinent to SAS, because the likely acquirer is a company like Broadcom or private equity. They will seek to maximize profits from the declining revenue stream. Unlike the owners of SAS, those companies don’t hesitate to layoff and outsource. That’s their business model.
Many SAS employees believe they are entitled to a 35- or 40-hour week — because that’s all they’ve ever known. They don’t understand that this was a temporary anomaly, made possible by a company that for decades held a #1 market position.
Those business conditions are no longer true. The company will be sold. When that happens, all employees will move from the walled garden of SAS to the harsh competition of the Real World.
In the Real World, if you keep your skills sharp, you can have a career. If you don’t, others will.
@8ozr+1upGNaTN At least you didn’t put you incorrect reading of my thoughts in quotes that time. Progress.
And clearly I’m unable to heed my own advice about engaging. It just isn’t in me not to say what I think.
"Never engage with crazy people."
Anyone who believes that the solution to SAS's problems is to work harder is crazy. That's you, my friend.
You have serious mental issues.
“ You weren't misunderstood at all. You (indirectly) threatened someone's family, as in: "It would be a real shame if something bad happened to your family...". How did you think that was going to be interpreted?”
You do understand that quoting someone means using their actual words in the quotes and not inserting whatever you feel like right? Your reading comprehension issues can’t be tied to me by putting your sh-t in my quotes.
Not worth reading the rest of it. Never engage with crazy people.
Enjoy your week at a place you hate with people you despise pretending all is well. Sounds like a recipe for success.
"I think you misunderstood what I said or intentionally took it out of context."
You weren't misunderstood at all. You (indirectly) threatened someone's family, as in: "It would be a real shame if something bad happened to your family...". How did you think that was going to be interpreted?
"The context was people like you that clearly feel very strongly about SAS and anyone who puts in a serious effort."
I have given SAS so much of my "discretionary effort" over the years that I am entitled to every last bit of my opinion about SAS. Perhaps that's the difference between us.
"I NEVER hear the things said on here by you and those like you at SAS where it isn’t anonymous."
Maybe you haven't been listening or your co-workers know that they can't be honest with you. My guess is you "NEVER hear the things said on here by [me] and those like [me]" because they don't trust you. You should try listening for a change, and I mean really listening. Being a sympathetic ear means you don't wait for a break in conversation to tell someone what you think, or make a mental note to keep something in your "back pocket" to use against them in the future. You're not constantly looking for signs of disloyalty, or trying to climb on their shoulders for that last breath of fresh air when you're both drowning.
OK, I’m back. Butter and salt. The good kind of butter, not the theater kind. What happened?
@7ccx+1upGNaTN Not a chance I’m putting a name on here.
I think you misunderstood what I said or intentionally took it out of context.
The context was people like you that clearly feel very strongly about SAS and anyone who puts in a serious effort. I NEVER hear the things said on here by you and those like you at SAS where it isn’t anonymous.
That is clearly what I meant by "Have the courage of your convictions…. Not just on an anonymous site.”
"Have the courage of your convictions…. Not just on an anonymous site."
You first. Nothing and no one, other than you, is stopping you from telling us who you really are. Have the courage of your convictions, as you say. You won't, though. We all know that.
Hold on... going to get popcorn.
“ I don't care what your problem is, or why you hate your co-workers so much, but stop blaming the victim. And don't come crying here when you finally get what you wanted, and discover exactly how much value you have to the company. Here's a hint: it's none. You have no value to the company. You're Boxer, the "useful id--t", and you su-k.”
I love my coworkers, especially the ones who pull their weight and don’t just throw every problem up for someone else to solve.
I’ll cry where and when I please. Don’t really need your permission.
Apparently I do have value to the company. They pay my salary every month for many many years. Why would a company shell out hundreds of thousands a year for an asset they don’t value. Will I get let go at some point? Maybe. But until that happens I have value and will continue to act like it.
It must be painful going through life with that attitude. You be a valueless victim all you want. I have a higher opinion of myself and most of my coworkers.
Sometimes I wish this wasn’t anonymous. No one I know openly acts like you do at work. So that means there are people like you hiding in the shadows. Afraid to say or express their disdain for the company and people who put in the work to keep it going.
Have the courage of your convictions…. Not just on an anonymous site.
"They didn’t donate anything. They are paid a salary.
Yes some people get paid a salary while doing bare minimum. Those should be the first people who get layed off. Thinking of yourself and your family first means applying yourself and setting a good example. It also happens to put food on your families table.
blah blah blah"
What a phenomenally stupid opinion. Either someone should be grateful they're employed and spend all their time at work, or they should find time outside of work to continue their professional development at the expense of their family.
Those that choose not to spend all their time at work are "lazy" and should be punished for "doing bare minimum". They should be laid off for the temerity of having work-life balance, for putting family first.
Those who don't find time outside of work to continue their professional development haven't kept up their skills, and have only themselves to blame when they get laid off. They should have stolen time from their family (you'd frown on stealing time from your employer, I'm sure) for the training their employer isn't willing to pay for.
I don't care what your problem is, or why you hate your co-workers so much, but stop blaming the victim. And don't come crying here when you finally get what you wanted, and discover exactly how much value you have to the company. Here's a hint: it's none. You have no value to the company. You're Boxer, the "useful id--t", and you su-k.
“They didn’t donate anything. They are paid a salary. ”
Salary gets you 8hrs of honest work, not a blank check to contribute to my managers and directors ambitions. Especially at these pathetic salaries.
@7dqp+1upGNaTN Funny how that works when one applies themselves.
I also have always tried my best and have been rewarded accordingly.
@7hoh+1upGNaTN “ Yes, you are. You donated your time for free to a billionaire. Think of yourself and your family first.”
They didn’t donate anything. They are paid a salary.
Yes some people get paid a salary while doing bare minimum. Those should be the first people who get layed off. Thinking of yourself and your family first means applying yourself and setting a good example. It also happens to put food on your families table.
With your attitude you are fortunate to still be employed. See how well your family does then.