I am a CW.
Got a phone call from an agency I use to work for and they asked me if I got laid off from HP. I said no but I had a 2 week furlough in April. They have been in contact with management and told me to expect another furlough in July/August time range. Just a heads up for other CW's.
“ That is why China is leading the US in patents now--they plow the earnings back into innovation rather than into executives' pockets (e.g., Enrique Lores).”
Maybe you should move to China then. Just be sure not to sp-t on the ground. You’ll get the death penalty for that.
"Google answer: "Dividends are not considered an expense. Instead, they represent a distribution of profits to shareholders. When a company earns profits, it can choose to either reinvest those profits back into the business (retained earnings) or distribute a portion of them to shareholders in the form of dividends."
These shenanigans come from the same companies that use non-GAAP earnings (otherwise they would be reporting a loss, something else for you to consider). Any expense is an expense, no matter how you cut it logically. And spending money on stock buybacks and dividends is money that is taken out of the company--period. It does not matter if the money is used through company earnings or borrowed, and the vast majority of it was borrowed during low-interest years and now the chickens are coming home to roost. That is why China is leading the US in patents now--they plow the earnings back into innovation rather than into executives' pockets (e.g., Enrique Lores).
“You lost ALL credibility right there. Anything that costs a company are "expenses," and these days buybacks are the largest expense and the most common way for executives to loot their companies.”
Again, expenses are reported on the income statement. Stock buybacks are a swap of cash for shares that is reported on the balance sheet. Not an expense. What do you think happens when you borrow money? You receive cash which will be on hand to do things like buyback shares. The rest of your post is nonsense.
Most people would make a minimum effort to verify their comments before they continue to make incorrect posts. You claim my credibility is gone but you are the one making false statements. I’ve posted information to try to help you understand, but you clearly have no interest in gaining any knowledge. You aren’t worth any more time.
Google search: "Are dividends expenses?"
Google answer: "Dividends are not considered an expense. Instead, they represent a distribution of profits to shareholders. When a company earns profits, it can choose to either reinvest those profits back into the business (retained earnings) or distribute a portion of them to shareholders in the form of dividends."
"Things like dividends and stock buybacks are not expenses..."
You lost ALL credibility right there. Anything that costs a company are "expenses," and these days buybacks are the largest expense and the most common way for executives to loot their companies.
Your claim about buybacks is also baffling: "They are transactions that use existing cash on hand." 100% wrong and 100% fail. Look at how much Boeing, Intel, and even Apple have borrowed to buy back their own stock (for example, Boeing never had 121 billion dollars cash on hand to spend on buybacks and used debt, and so did intel to buy 90 billion). Their companies are saddled with debt because of buybacks. HP has done the same.
“Seriously, you are this ill-informed and gullible? No matter how you cut it, whatever a company spends on stock buybacks is money that could have been better spent on innovation, raises, and for more productive purposes.”
Try to keep up, you are failing badly. You are wildly missing the point and again mixing balance sheet and income statement transactions.
My initial comment was about how furloughs were done mainly to manage quarterly earnings, i.e. net income, and that wages were the largest expense impacting this, with CW expenditures being the most controllable. Why does this have to be done, because sales are not meeting target. It is a quick fix for poor management.
Things like dividends and stock buybacks are not expenses and don’t impact the income statement, so adjusting them has no bearing on quarterly earnings. They are transactions that use existing cash on hand. There are very valid arguments on whether that is the right thing to do and whether there are better uses for that cash.
My point is likely the same as yours. Employees and CWs are sacrificed because reducing their pay is virtually the only way to influence quarterly earnings in the short term.
" Neither dividends nor stock buybacks are expenses on the income statement and don’t affect net income."
Seriously, you are this ill-informed and gullible? No matter how you cut it, whatever a company spends on stock buybacks is money that could have been better spent on innovation, raises, and for more productive purposes. Look at how much Intel has spent on buybacks (90 billion, FYI), and look at where it is now compared to its competitors. Intel executives have the same mindset as you (and HP) while Intel is crumbling, and employees are the ones paying the price.
“If you actually look at the HP financial statements each quarter, the company pays out more in dividends and stock buybacks than in salaries.“
If you properly read those financial statements you would see you are mixing apples and oranges. Neither dividends nor stock buybacks are expenses on the income statement and don’t affect net income. However, salaries are an expense on the income statement.
"Wages are the largest expense HP has. While sales revenue can fluctuate each quarter"
If you actually look at the HP financial statements each quarter, the company pays out more in dividends and stock buybacks than in salaries.
"Your answer makes no sense. HP can let contractors go whenever they want."
Your response to my answer lacks empathy, critical thinking, and thorough analysis. There's a difference between HP forcing contractors out through "letting them go" versus encouraging them to leave on their own as if it were a natural thing. Public image does affect stock price after all.
“Hate to be that guy, but you just answered your own question/misunderstanding. The purpose/reasoning behind HP's furloughs is to encourage CW to leave/quit because it saves the company money.”
Your answer makes no sense. HP can let contractors go whenever they want.
The purpose of furloughs is very simple. Wages are the largest expense HP has. While sales revenue can fluctuate each quarter, HP has little ability to impact salary expense for full time employees, but it can manage CW expense. Furloughs help allow HP to manage quarterly expenses and profitability performance.
"I don’t really understand the purpose of a furlough. Either you have work or you don’t. I saw a lot of good experienced contractors leave HP because they needed a more stable income stream. I left HP for the same reason and their engineers were calling me for help because there was nobody left to take over for me. It was pretty clear to me that HP never valued my work."
Hate to be that guy, but you just answered your own question/misunderstanding. The purpose/reasoning behind HP's furloughs is to encourage CW to leave/quit because it saves the company money.
I don’t really understand the purpose of a furlough. Either you have work or you don’t. I saw a lot of good experienced contractors leave HP because they needed a more stable income stream. I left HP for the same reason and their engineers were calling me for help because there was nobody left to take over for me. It was pretty clear to me that HP never valued my work.
Lol …go see what Ricoh is doing to its employees!
I got the email today from my agency, yes I'm a CW.
Yet another furlough for June/July. From 2 to 10 days depending on which manager you work for at HP. Print division.
I am getting a little tired of these unpaid forced vacations each year. Thank goodness for unemployment benefits.
The best thing HP can and should do is to keep its CWs, and dump many of those lazy, typically overweight, do-nothings known as FTEs.
CWs do far more real work for HP than FTEs, and CWs have known this for a long time.
“There are a number of incredibly immature, boorish, and imbecilic comments being made here. Says a lot about the type of people who work at HP.”
That’s why everyone who has ever worked for HP is a schmuck, including yourself.
"There are a number of incredibly immature, boorish, and imbecilic comments being made here. Says a lot about the type of people who work at HP. And it says even more about HP that would have them as employees.
Bill and Dave would not be proud."
Not sure what you are getting at. The company that Bill & Dave founded died when Carly took over. The old HP managers and mentality have been mostly replaced by immature and anxiety driven managers, and a culture of corruption and discrimination against white males in the name of “diversity.”
Lores only cares about "shareholder value" and not innovation. As such he only hires people who are good at hyping the stock price. Have you noticed lately that "AI" is attached to everything at HP these days? Except the stock price is lower than when Warren invested in the company two years ago since investors know it is all hype and print is dead.
There are a number of incredibly immature, boorish, and imbecilic comments being made here. Says a lot about the type of people who work at HP. And it says even more about HP that would have them as employees.
Bill and Dave would not be proud.
“And to those here who have provided angry and threatening insults towards others, please get yourself a diaper change right away.”
Ladies first.
“And layoffs hurt just as bad whether you’re a CW or a FTE.”
Not true. As mentioned, laid off FTEs get severance while CWs don’t.
“CWs don't get severance, quality benefits, or even a good salary compared to HP employees.”
Not entirely true. As a CW I make $50/hr which can be considered a good salary for most.
Wow, some really bitter, thin skinned, and angry guys on this comment board! The bottom line is that NOBODY is safe at HP. And layoffs hurt just as bad whether you’re a CW or a FTE. HP is no family to you and can and will drop you to the curb.
And to those here who have provided angry and threatening insults towards others, please get yourself a diaper change right away.
CWs don't get severance, quality benefits, or even a good salary compared to HP employees. If a college graduate gets laid off from HP, they'll get at least $10k in severance. HP doesn't need to layoff CWs because they can furlough as long as they please, so I'd agree that HP employees are at higher risk for layoffs.
Quite frankly, when I was still at HP as a non-CW, all of the CWs had far more technical responsibilities than non-CWs. I was a little jealous. Our entire organization was literally nothing but PowerPoint engineers with practically little to no influence towards marketing and product management. Every supplier did all of the proof of concepts.
I'm glad to be gone. HP still furloughing CWs even after covid shows they still don't have a good grasp on their money and understanding how to be a market differentiator.
"I have always felt bad for the CWs who are the financial backbone of their family and/or living standards."
Don't forget about the direct hire employees who are the financial backbone of their family and/or living standards. Their situation is much worse since they are more likely to be laid off compared to their CW counterparts.
"I am a CW.
Got a phone call from an agency I use to work for and they asked me if I got laid off from HP. I said no but I had a 2 week furlough in April. "
Would be good to know where you were located, and any additional details about the the nature of the layoffs (immediate or advanced notice).
Really sorry that you have to go through all of this. I got let go from HP around this time last year and I wasn't a CW.
But this must be, what, the 8th furlough in the last two years? I have always felt bad for the CWs who are the financial backbone of their family and/or living standards. Truthfully, it's really the most unreliable job security I've ever seen. The fact that they're still doing this many furloughs is hinting that nothing is changing at HP and they're still in deep waters with their finances.
@2htw+1swxoOLH sounds like a really angry schmuck! But what do you expect from some HP lifers who do nothing more than prepare PowerPoint slides and kiss up to management?
CWs are always the first to go during a layoff. Anyone who does not know this is a schmuck.
Plenty of CW's lost their contracts last year in the spring. I know of a few that ended their tenure with HP (one was here for 8 years) this past April when their positions were eliminated. CW's are being cut.
It feels so good being a CW and not having to worry too much about being laid off. In all my years being at HP I’ve witnessed only one CW get laid off compared to dozens of direct employees getting chopped up left and right due to work force reductions. I’ve learned to save my vacation hours for these furloughs so that it feels closer to having a paid vacation than an actual furlough. Quite hiring for the win!