Thread regarding Citigroup Inc. / Citibank / Citi layoffs

China is different, because there are so many new graduate every year. It is harder to get a position as programmer over 35, 40, on the other side, the officail retire age for woman is 55.

for those complaining about calling people discriminating age. In China, it is seen older than 35, too old and is harder to get employment. Also, please look into the 996 movement in china. Keep in mind there are many Shanghai business analyst and developers now in Citibank. So keep in mind, you are saying this about one individual while a whole country thinks this way.

video for reference: Why turning 35 feels like a career ‘death sentence’ for some Chinese tech workers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wawwwU6Iv1E

look at even your own java sdk. There are versions. Many who started Java I work with were Java 5 masters. Things evolve and java 17 and java 21 give better quality of life improvements. At it core, it still have java 5 functions, but things evolve. Cant be stuck in Java 5 for the next 50 years, otherwise we will write so much boiler plate to do something simple. New languages like python is a perfect example of less boiler plate.

Another thing to add, many of the original devs who wrote for mainframe systems in cobol are the boomer generation. Many of the ones who had domain knowledge are retired/dead or on their way to retire. Who is going to maintain it?
the next generation, things evolve and even some companies are going to do code conversion of legacy systems. You can have the same set of people working on the same thing. The next gen can even improve what is already existing. IBM is a perfect example, a company that has been around is working on improving their mainframe systems with faster compute times with AI sitting close to the processor. The team inventing this technology is from the next generation, gen X and younger. The Original devs who wrote in cobol is in their 70s and 80s today

one problem with banks is that their code base is spaghetti code, and this is across the industry, not just Citibank. There still mainframe code running, and there is no way that is ever going to disappear. He-l, Even IBM is bringing AI into its mainframe systems and for a good business case

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5tpoD4tCAg
title: IBM’s Mainframe: The OG of Computing is getting AI, Interviews in New York

The problem is adding features for products that may not need it, leading to that duct tape solution, legacy system falling apart. It on both side, management and the employee.
All banks, especially in markets sector want fast products, even if it is duct taped together. That mindset leads to finding shortcuts to making systems that make it a nightmare to maintain.

A different take is we have had a steady stream of "fresh takes" for the last 20+ years I've been here. Every fresh take has been the same. Instead of investing in the core infrastructure we would do a "quick fix". When I started it was we were asking too much of tech; figure it out yourself. That got us EUCs. Then instead of going to new platforms we would just do new interfaces and duct tape them to systems with APIs, that got us ancient systems that are constantly breaking, then big data would transform everything, but bad data in, bad data out. The new one is AI is going to save us all while pumping out fundamentally incorrect cr-p. We dont need new people. We need competent people that stick around long enough to face the consequences of constantly cutting corners for short term gains.

I agree, but many older folks I met in Citibank just want to get by. Work their way to retirement with little hassle. Sure, there are some outliers that are willing to be on the path of continuous learning and have an open mind, but it has been rare in my experience. Or other older folks that are out of touch with the requirements to make a product. Almost like automagically will happen. ai integration in things that shouldn’t have ai. Integrate this new framework or tool even though it’s not necessary

Wow, a fair amount of age discrimination in here. Agree with the other poster - it comes down to competency and accountability - we seem to be missing that at all age levels and this comes down to a larger corporate CULTURE problem that would take YEARS of real change management to correct. It's not age.

Think about the saying, you can’t teach old dogs new tricks.

While you still can train an old dog, it comes with limitations. Think of it at this scale.

An old dog will have issues sitting and jumping if it has joint issues and will eventually stop listening to your commands due to the pain being stronger than the will to follow directions

I see it daily with older managers. They are an expert in their domain. They know the inside and out of their program. Update the program or use a new program and you can visibly see the managers struggling. Almost like a fish out of water.

A younger worker has the brain plasticity to learn newer things than someone who is 50+ years old.

Even if someone is competent, age is a big factor. Older folks will have more responsibilities than a younger generation worker, most likely more health conditions and will have a harder time burning the midnight oil if needed. This will lead to the disconnect eventually if the new manager asking their workers to do the opposite of what they can do and leads back to square one.

You are dangerous. Age is not a determinant factor, competency is, Citi needs competent and accountable people.

I have been saying the same thing for years. Nothing is going to change unless you remove the incompetent outdated and rotten leadership. Remove Peter Holden and the likes!

The answer will always be “replace anyone but the CEO”. The sooner you come to grips with that the better off you’ll be.