https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/09/03/delphis-salaried-workers-fighting-full-pensions-12-years-later/5605219001/
22 replies (most recent on top)
There’s almost zero chance you could convince me to take the pension monthly payments vs. the lump sum. Hired in 1999, and as soon as I retire in 5-10 years max, I’m taking my lump sum and getting the heck away!!!!
Not even concerned about reaching Service year bumps anymore, and just making sure I stay healthy and low-stress (so I’ll hopefully need less medical care) and saving all my $$$. Self-reliance / self-sufficiency is the best way….
I took the VIP
LL6 with 30 years and some change, contributory retirement the whole time.
Pension was $5214, supplement was $2087 for 4 1/2 years
Lump was $1,367,404
The IRR on the pension was 3.44%
My return to date since receiving the lump sum is 4.75% for 7 month or about 8.13% on an annual basis, to the lump sum has been working out so far.
Informally, it seems about 7-8 to one taking the lump sum over the pension.
Worst decision my poor young self made was not contributing. Now I'm nearing retirement with much less pension. Oh well, wasn't the only bad decision I made in my life :-)
62 years old (so no supplemental years), 4Q of SR8 for many years and 35 years with voluntary contributions since eligible.
Took 65% for surviving spouse option - $5900/month. Single life annuity would have been $6200.
Since both spouse and I were retired from Ford and Brother in Law and his wife retired from Ford can tell you that your salary definitely impacts your pension.
BIL 33 years - 5400,
his wife 30 years 4200
Me 19 years - 3800 which includes supplemental, at 30 years it was projected @ 5850
Spouse 34 years 6900 which includes supplemental
Ford likes to keep people @ or lower than mid point in salary range, which is why there are a lot of people clustered at 4K-6K. It is also why Ford chops the highest paid
I retired from Ford after just 19 years and my pension is only $2,800 and that includes my supplementary contributions. Of course if I had been allowed to work another year there would have been a nice pension bump. If pensions for people with more seniority are as healthy as posted here I could see why a ruthless company, with no moral desire to honor obligations and a tolerance for destroying lives to save money would try to get rid of people before they earn a decent pension.
Based on information I have received from other Ford retirees, I'm guessing the 6900 included the "Early Retirement Supplement" and the actual amount (after age 62 and 1 month) is in the mid to upper 5000's/month. Not bad, but not 6-8k.
I have a pension supposedly coming when I retire from Ford in less than 10 years, and I’ve never assumed I would see one dime of it, just like social security. I am saving on my own and if those two exist, it will be a bonus. I would never be a contributory GRP member. I’m not giving Ford 1 cent extra, more for them to waste.
@1zav+1cE1Dt9v retired GSR @ 34 years 6900/mo pension
Is this a recent retirement? What age were you when you retired? I'm assuming 6900 is
"Single Life Annuity"? Does the 6900 include any "Early Retirement Supplement" (additional amount received until age 62 and 1 month)?
Er @1slx+1cE1Dt9v retired GSR @ 34 years 6900/mo pension.
Perhaps you didn’t follow the HR recommendation of having voluntary pension contributions withdrawn from your paycheck? I don’t remember the exact amount they allowed but it was a small amount - less than $100 a month. My very first supervisor printed off the paperwork and insisted I add the voluntary contribution. When I hear about people retiring after 35 years with a 4000/mo pension, my first thought is they didn’t do the voluntary contributions, second thought is they spent many years in the first quartile salary range.
YMMV
LOL @rmh+1cE1Dt9v you clearly do not work at Ford, or if you do you do not have a pension. Most GSRs retire at GSR8 level. If they have 30+ years in they have generous pensions. Go review the formulas on HR website and you will see the variables.
LOL, not sure how stating that GSRs do not have pensions of 6-8K was me asking for someone to post actual numbers. FWIW, I do work for Ford and have 30 years+ and know exactly what the actual numbers are. The reason for my comment was to point out what @1fym+1cE1Dt9v said, "... just another example of folks ranting and raving posting manifesto about things that they really know nothing about".
Post ID: @rmh+1cE1Dt9v
By your uninformed statement it's apparent that you do not work at FMC and just want someone to post actual numbers.
Exactly just another example of folks ranting and raving posting manifesto about things that they really no nothing about……(And probably never even worked for the company at all)
I don't think the pension is 6-8k for someone retiring as a GSR.
Ford does not have a pension program anymore. Do you really think the rest of us (after 2004) would vote in a union for you pensioners?
I would rather keep the dues in my pocket for the limited benefit of a union at this point.
Besides, Ford does have salaried union representation at Central Labs for at least 25 years. Wonder why it didn't catch on to the rest of Dearborn?
Take the buyout and hire a smart financial advisor.
Lump sum vs pension is not a black and white decision and should be made with the input of a financial advisor. I was advised to take the pension based on a number of factors but primarily because of my age (over 65) and a pension amount that is below what is insured should Ford go belly up. If you’re taking advantage of 30 and out retirement while still below what the govt recognizes as full retirement or your pension amount is above the amount insured you may need to make a different decision. Again, take advise from a financial advisor that you trust who knows your situation in detail.
Always Take the lump sum? This is not a black and white decision and that can be dangerous advice for those who cannot manage the lump or financial advisors who find a way to take a good chunk of it. Run the numbers to what suits your investment and risk style. There is risk either way. If you take the lump then you are likely putting 100% of your retirement savings at the risk of the market.
Always take the lump sum. Find a good financial analyst to manage your money. Do not trust that company for pension payouts. They'll pull some nonsense like they always do.
If one is eligible to retire, I would suggest taking the lump sum to avoid the risk of losing part of your pension in the future. I took advantage of the VIP offer at the end of 2020 and am very happy with my decision. I took the lump sum. Taking the lump sum now in a very low interest rate environment will result in a much higher payout. The lump sum payout is based on the IRS 417e present value rates from August of the prior year. So, for example, the VIP called for a retirement date of 1/1/2021 which meant that my lump sum was based on the 417e rates from 8/2020 that were extremely low. The good news is that the rates are still very low which bodes well for those folks that anticipate retiring by the December 2022. Many analysts expect rates to start increasing now as inflation fears continue. The higher the rates, the lower the lump sum. In summary, if you can retire, certainly take the lump sum and make sure to do so prior to YE 2022. You will save yourself six figures. Good luck!
The salaried union won’t happen as the path is to accelerate the off sharing of white collared jobs. You see that happening today, trim the US staff while adding jobs to F of I
For those of you thinking you will retire with your pensions and be safe once retired. That’s not how it works. If you are retiring with a healthy sized pension (more than PBGC guarantees) take the lump sum.
People who retire early let’s with 30 years in would also get burned because they are not retirement aged. These same people are the ones F targeted for SRD - those nearing 30 years employment who were in their 40s-50s. F used the same calculations for their “pension benefits” that they could collect at full retirement age (not at SRD) was $1500. Where these SRD people were expecting to retire with 6-8K a month in a year or two.
It is hard to say what is right from a government perspective, Is it fair for the average American to be taxed to pay a few Americans 6-8K a month? Most average Americans would say no. On the other hand should the F execs and family be paying that promised money to F retirees, absolutely.
I imagine F continues to keep actuarial tables based on job types and environments.
Once upon a time white collar lower level employees had highest longevity, that has shifted with poor diets and poor lifestyle choices (heart attacks, strokes, liver disease, diabetes, dementia, cancer). The majority of F employees are either Obese or TOFI (Thin on Outside Fat on Inside). How many of your coworkers take statins or other prescription meds?
An astonishing number of F employees have less than 3 years of retirement (if they even make it to retirement). An even more eye opening statistic is those F retirees who are unable to truly enjoy retirement due to poor health.
The F bean counters have a dilemma, do they keep the healthy employees with projected long lives and incur high pension obligations? Or do they keep the unhealthy employees who will incur higher health care costs now, but have low pension obligations?
Or do you just claim anyone over 45 is unskilled and replace them with 20 year olds, and pay lawyers to dodge age discrimination lawsuits.
I'm hoping the plan won't be terminated for at least another 3 years. As the article points out those of us who took retirement at a relatively young age are the ones most at risk