Sad but true, myself encounter many managers too and this is one of the reason why I choose to leave just recently. How the local managers here lead are still way behind compared to what I experience when being assigned by the company for a short stint abroad and working under the leadership of a Dutch and an Englishman once upon a time. And yes, I've got 1.5 months pro-rated AWS and cashed out ten days of my annual leave.
5444 replies (most recent on top)
What’s the increment offered by shopee ? Does anyone know ?
Then why u still around? Or are u laid off and back to troll lol loser
What a joke! Regardless chicken head or chicken feet, all will be slaughtered eventually
@5ddha+16zEvLP3
But but but then ah …… you will have many headless chicken running around leh! Hehe
To TMTS and HW3 Management:
We don’t need so many postmen, such as RL, SLS & DH, just know how to pass messages, pleasing upwards and delegating downwards…
management will protect themselves first before the workers, how will PIP/NSI affect them?
take care of yourself then others then the business, it should make sense now
Does this PIP NSI apply to management roles, any news on managers get PIP? cannot be all so good else we won’t be high cost to serve the customers? Who contributed to high cost ? The worker bees ? Now many functions reduced head count but didn’t see consolidation of management, double standards?
@5cgte+16zEvLP3
Wah! To be an EM DH and a millionaire by 37 and earning $500K pa.
I wan I wan :)
@5duez+16zEvLP3
Errrr ….. because Shopee is Ah Beng kia eh seng lee. The lines of Mark Lee and Phua Chu Kang fronting ads.
Eeeeeuuuu!!!!!
Whatever it is, or however it is, I (and I am sure there are many more after me), who would give anything to earn $500K pa for doing nothing but ask questions and delegate - like being an EM executive!!
Yu dun want, but I want hor !!
Easy money. Why not??
I think the person meant how to get $500k without working? Only in EM you can do that.
@5bbvh+16zEvLP3
You think the outside world can’t pay $500k per annum as basic pay? That’s bec you are a frog in the well. Having said , pple who draw such salary scale outside EM are really doing productive work and effective work that bring in the $$ for the company. Unlike EM. In EM , these pple just do 2 things :
1) upward management by echoing , toe party line … they don’t add value or ideas on how to improve the business but rather ask all their subordinates how to improve business. Then they spend time on PowerPoint to spin nice story
2) delegate . Always delegate down using the “pretext “ of empowerment so much so that empowerment is a dirty and abused word .
Have we ever asked ourselves what is a day routine of an Exec drawing a base pay of $500k? The answer is nothing …. Except one a while golfing with the boss , upward managing . They just spend time playing internal politics , upstaging one another … have they ever come out will any brilliant idea to how to win customers ? It’s an obvious No.
I can’t understand why some of Us have a cheek to mock at Shopee ? It is expanding , EM is shrinking . Shopee is hiring , we are retrenching . It is sun raising we are sun setting . It is precisely this kind of attitude , the lack of humility to acknowledge that we have a problem internally that we are in this pathetic state . Wake up folks !
@5brjk+16zEvLP3
To be a DH and a (cash, not asset-based) millionaire before 37 years old, is sure an impossible challenge to most of us - especially in current times.
Envy ….. envy!
May we know who he/she is? Hint?
In the past, all of us know we can look forward to a stable career with EM, and slowly grow our technical expertise. I still felt married to EM despite the average ranking. Many of us know we are not the top quintile and will never be a manager. But before 2020, this was not a bad place to grow a long-term career, regardless. Because -
Slowly but surely, we knew we would build expertise and become a subject matter expert in our respective areas, be it infrastructure, risk management, or applications.
We forged real friendships and trust with many colleagues in our offices and around the world, some of whom we had never met and who were of a different skin color, culture or opposite time zones, or a lot older or younger than us.
We looked forward to slowly building up a good sum of retirement money. Yes we always knew EM didn't pay like the tech companies, but it paid enough especially if we project the stability out to retirement at 60, and we believed we traded money with work life balance.
We had stability that allowed us to take care of our family. We all took pride in learning opportunities, in our safety controls that allow us to act with integrity.
I wrote in the past tense because that's past.
We trusted in the stability, although there were opportunity costs but we decided it was worth it. Quickly, all that changed in 2020, with the sudden 8-10% NSI and PIP, the layoffs in Australia, Europe, Canada and Singapore, and so much rumors about HW3 and further job cuts. Before 2020, none of us thought we were always one rank cycle away from being out of job. Today, this is true for the vast majority of us, except maybe the hi-pos and Outstanding with Distinction people.
When management talked about "we know we have lost the trust of the people", there is always a implicit BUT in their speech. They always sounded like they know have lost the trust, BUT they are also one pay increment, or one 401k restoration, or one LinkedIn Stephen Covey's Trust training, away from restoring all the trust. They always sounded like we are kids throwing tantrum but would be pacified with candies.
But I want to tell management that the trust lost is so, so fundamental, and the worker bees all know that.
The crux of the issue is not the pay freeze because the company was in crisis. We are NOT selfish people who insisted on increments in bad times; I remembered when the COVID pandemic and NSI announcement first broke out, many people were asking in the forums, why wasn't the company considering cutting our pay and saving jobs? Those conversations in times of crisis made me so proud of being a part of EM and EMIT. We were asking for pay cuts to save other people's jobs, that's who we were!
As long as there is a mandatory 8-10% NSI - PIP - PIL, the management cannot, SIMPLY CANNOT, tout a long term career or growth opportunities. Because these are fundamentally opposite and contradictory.
Because:
We can no longer slowly but surely build expertise and become a subject matter expert in our respective areas. Every cycle is a hustle cycle. Every cycle we need to be highly visible, show some projects, show some step-ups. The technical folks, the young developers, they cannot think, I'll take 3-5 years to grow my technical expertise, take part in projects, learn from the tech leads. Because they will fear that by year 2, they could already be ranked NSI if they were not visible. But if everyone only focus on high visibility work, we would all only ever become generalists like our own managers. How do we build technical depth if the system doesn't allow us to focus on quietly building our T-shape expertise? Young people are not stupid. They know if they only have a few years to build their technical expertise before the younger ones catch up
We find it harder to be real friends and build trust with many colleagues, especially in other places in the world. Everyone is a competitor, especially people from lower cost countries. What is at stake is no longer only a ranking number, which many of us could care less about. What is at stake is our job that we can easily lose, and it impacts our family as well.
We now know that the longer we stay, the more disadvantaged we'd be. Firstly, the longer we stay, the higher the possibility of being placed in NSI bucket. It is only logical statistically - the older we get and the higher our CL, the more competitive it is in the rank pool, especially if we are ranked as individual contributors. Also, many of us beyond our 40s know there have been ups and downs in our careers, our family and personal lives. Most of us had encountered personal issues that affect our performance at our work, but this company used to offer the stability that allowed us the leeway to bounce back. Now, well, that is gone. We are one health or family crisis away from losing our job.
There is no longer work life balance for many of us. I found myself unable to care much about my personal life anymore. I had to onboard and hand-hold 2.5 new people in their work since late last year while the layoffs and high attrition are taking place, while doing my own job. EMIT management said they have already stopped doing some work. But is anyone brave enough to claim these as achievements in next year's PDS form... what they stopped doing? Would these brave souls be ranked well?
Keeping the lights on has been so draining the past 6 months. I wonder whether the management knows this. My biggest achievement this year has been that I onboarded 2 brand new people, when people with 20+ years of experiences were suddenly laid off. I've also worked 50+ hours every week for couple of months to help cover the work of these brand new people and myself. Might I put this on my PDS to save me from being ranked NSI? Oh but keeping the lights on is not good enough.. we need visibility... so let's hustle some more. Then more the year after next? And some more... just to try to keep a job that no longer gives me any stability.
Most of us, if we are honest, don't feel married to EMIT anymore. If we were to imagine how we would one day leave this company, few of us would think we'd retire in 20-30 years' time.
Most of us likely realise we'd either get PIP'd or impacted by a HW3 type of program, or forced layoff when we are in our late 40s or early 50s, which is the worst time in life to be out of a job. We saw that happen to many of our colleagues recently. When we read about the Cold War or the Great Depression, we learn that a few years of hardship can change the mindset of entire generations of people who lived through those times. I muse that in EM, one year of bad HR policy has changed so much for us.
Whoever comes here for official news is a fool. This is an anonymous forum. Anyone can come on here and sprout nonsense. Why assume fake news only come from the outside? There are more people on the inside who would benefit from you leaving because of fud. Never believe all this we are ExxonMobil phoniness
Congratulations refinery engineer on escaping this sh-t show! Wishing all the very best. We Were ExxonMobil before DW destroy it all.
3 years+ engineer in refinery side earning 74k per annum. Managed to get 84k per annum as a consultant with another company. I only requested for 10% increase in my expected salary so imagine my surprise when they gave me 15%.
Good luck to all and all the best. We Are One ExxonMobil
Younger employees are still struggling with the low pay. Receive civil service pay but with the same employment risk as investment bankers.
People will still continue to leave. The push factors are much much much deeper than AWS.
Full of fake news and hypocrites on this forum.
Quit lah.
There’s no more learning. Now
It’s just fire fighting after fire fighting.
The email on AWS doesn’t say much, other than the company wants to cap the AWS upside for the employee (max 3 months) in good times while trying to not even pay out AWS in bad times. DW’s idea of winning.
Can't agree more.
While the forum focuses on salary increment, AWS and benefits, the learning experience is often ignored. The company is becoming ever so beurocratic with its multiple supervisory and managerial layers. Most of the positions are meaningless, merely serving as a coordinating role. Focus is often creating work processes, improving it or abandoning it later in name sake of optimisation. There is always new initiative around the corner and big acronyms and hype around something. Rarely anything is sustainable. Managers and supervisors often don't stay long enough to create meaningful changes. Often they come, gain the experience and move on to do something else. Let's play a scenario. Oil back to $100 - no issue! Plenty of money to spend and sc--w up. Let say oil is $40 on steady state in next 10 - 20 years - I think we would have a hard time adjusting to it since we spent money like oil is at $100. We are only good, because of high oil price. Just a down tick of oil price like in recent times, we took so drastic measures tells how unsustainable the way company is being managed. Are we improving? I don't feel so. We continue to dance around the issues, charting so called strategies, justifying all the numbers to look better just so every of us will be acknowledged in the next ranking cycle. Who cares about the truth anymore! Take care of own rice bowl first and continue politisizing matters!
@5bbvh+16zEvLP3
Well said!!! That is exactly happening in EM. Company thinks the salary package is competitive.. it is only true for managers whose CL is 26 & above. Those general managing skill set is not so relevant to outside market to find the same pay so they are not going to jump the ship.
Entry level pay for fresh graduate is not even competitive like government sectors. Furthermore, with recent pay freeze, minimum promotions and yearly 8%PIP, company can’t attract talent compared to booming industries like Fin tech, Semicon and pharmaceutical in which, they can offer more increments and new position as promotions since the industry is expanding.
Frankly speaking, it is not like 10 years ago, EM is not first choice for 1st class honours graduates. It is very critical to retain existing top performers as well as to attract 1st tier younger generation if don’t want to be another blackberry down the road after 10 years.
@5bbvh+16zEvLP3
But can these other industries pay a mid-40’s to the tune of $500K pa (not including stock options and other executive perks) - like what our younger DMs are getting?
Nothing beats oil money (yet) at the higher echelons.
Read:
https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/Sustainability/Sustainability-Report/Governance/executive-compensation
Good news got AWS this year. Maybe pay rise next year, maybe a promotion. Jump jump jump@@
The crisis woke up many people, there are better jobs outside, in assets light industry and booming e-commerce, finance, fin tech, data analytics, machine learning, AI, consultants, bio refining, trading etc….the risk they manage also very different, as compared to oil and gas, real real safety, one big incident can wipe out whole site. There are also the many jobs that not around 10-20yrs ago, so it is whole different game to attract talented people, the job market landscape has changed so much. Why consultants are so popular and can make good money, because most companies outsource, and consultants organisations very lean, operating cost is nothing except some people salary, electricity and good coffee. So folks here after 10-20yrs, basically cannot catch up the speed of change outside, have to stay, more than 20yrs planning for cruising through to retire, the younger one still wondering why so many people left, the fact is there are more jobs paying higher outside, but if you already earn at more than 10k base, then option is less because those require more business skills, p/l management, or very hardcore technical skills, eg. offshore civil, plant designing, energy consultation, that kind of niche market, otherwise our general management managers cannot find a match outside, because it is purely manage, most of time not business but people. So question is if a company cannot attract good talent, then how can it become superior company, eventually the falling into even poorer managers as what you get now is lower tier talent, good one at Google, Facebook, Apple, bank, MS.
Congrats! Everything as per normal AWS, increment.
@5bqrq+16zEvLP3
My current boss became a DH before his 37th birthday.
I would encourage every one to pursue, or better that!
And he was a millionaire (cash-wise, not assets) by then too.
@5bhlr+16zEvLP3
So cheapskate !!!
Looks like this year's AWS is to appease employees after HR notified an ongoing pay review earlier this year. Who knows what will happen to AWS next year...the story to be continued
Join me at Shopee :)
After quiting will Singtel discount for your personal phone contract still remain?
Something is coming to cut next year bonus and adjusting our base pay. Stay tune!
PIP will not remove, this is a new good tool.
June 21 (Reuters) - Top U.S. oil producer Exxon Mobil Corp (XOM.N) has kicked off a yearly performance review for U.S. staff, a process some workers dread because they view it this year as a prelude to stealth layoffs.
The evaluations are expected to assign about 5% to 10% of the workforce to performance improvement plans that can lead to forced departures for those unable to achieve managers' goals, according to a person familiar with the process.
Exxon last year targeted 8% of U.S. employees as low performers - up from 3% historically.
By 2040 I expect to have multiple times my current salary based on average 10% increment projection
@5bejk+16zEvLP3 Sure, go ahead and use insults when you can’t debate. For sure they won’t touch this year’s AWS because it will be unfair. But everyone is more concerned about next year’s right, and the email doesn’t say anything except please stay with us- we will let you know when there’s anything new to let you know. This is a bu-----t email if you ask me.
HHH! AWS and >10% increment coming... Lets hope next PIP to be removed...
Stop trolling, why don’t you ask about increment in 2030 or 2040? D-mb
Does this mean increment is confirm back for 2022 ? Or HR just highlighting that we need to wait for benchmarking?