I've seen a few people let go at Allscripts. Both times an HR rep came called them in a room and they were laid off or Fired. The Manager didn't have to do anything or see them before they got let go.
Is that just the company practice? Seems a bit cowardly!
The old PIP.. If you don't comply, you're gone. If you do, you're gone..
I'm totally surprised that no one mentioned the Performance Review Method of Firing and Denying Raises. I've seen this happen several times now and it wasn't limited to one Group or BU. During PMRP season, Middle Management is instructed verbally so as to leave no legal trail that they are not allowed to review anyone higher than a "3" overall and no individual score higher than "4". PMRP is on a 1-5 scale. Middle Management were instructed that they had a given "pool" of PMRP Points for their direct reports - lets say they have 5 people working for them, they'd get like 15 points to spread between all of them per category so nobody could get a "4" without someone else getting a "2".
HR stipulates than anyone receiving any individual score lower than a "3" is supposed to be put on a Performance Improvement Program. They would structure the PIPs with very vague and generally unreachable goals and metrics and give the employee 30 days to either Improve or Get Fired With No Package if they didn't just accept getting fired.
I saw a LOT of people get removed via this method, although to be fair I haven't seen them try this one in the last year, and they're very clear to say that the layoffs aren't "performance based" which they aren't anyways since they only fire the actual performers usually. Middle Management is verbally instructed to keep the PMRP scores as low as possible because they also use the overall score to determine raises and nothing below an overall "5" gets a raise unless they're feeling generous which is not often.
The whole PMRP is just a game - it keeps HR people from having to do any actual work and it puts the onus on the employee to determine their own "goals" when that is really something that Management is supposed to be providing. Leadership and Direction are unimportant these days it seems.
I know someone who left a high paying management job because they were told by their manager to build cases to support firing their direct reports in order to reduce headcount. Evil.
@2odl+15gZcKbR: you're overlooking the fact that they were likely given a salary increase each time they were rehired, and it was for an immediate need. This kind of thing happens. When McKesson sold out their business units to Allscripts, a number of most favored employees were given 40% temporary salary bonuses to ensure their business knowledge was retained. Apparently our leadership chose to ignore the fact that you could get a lot of Indians for that kind of money.
I know of a person who was let go 2 separate times by Allscripts but was considered a SME so they asked them back both times. That person just got RIF’d in the last round for the third time. At what point do you realize that this company doesn’t value you and is using/abusing you!
At one company that I worked at they laid off an employee who was the expert on a mission critical system. Oops! They had to hire the person back as a contractor at 3 times what they were paying as a regular hire. Much more then the regular pay plus perks.
The one time I saw HR and Legal actually get directly involved was when a worker I knew very well in another group was wrongfully terminated for absenteeism by a Director too stupid to remember he'd allowed the worker to work from home for a few days due to a family emergency in writing, and too incompetent to actually check that the worker was logged in and working which he was, and too arrogant because he FedEx'd a termination notice to the worker without going through Legal and HR.
If you're in Management, I'm just going to tell you that no matter how awesome you think you are don't ever try terminating an employee on your own recognizance. These days, it's a 9-month to 18-month process to get rid of useless/undesirable employees because HR and Legal have to play the "how do we not get sued here" game so they require ridiculous amounts of documentation and evidence. You try to short-circuit that process, you're going to be a part of that process.
Needless to say, this worker was somewhat incensed - and promptly threw everything including the kitchen sink and race card (there was nothing actually racist about the termination, but this worker figured they would attempt maximum retribution I think more for chuckles than any actual issues, this worker had a great sense of humor and knew exactly what buttons to press).
They took this person out to expensive lunches, made outrageous offers of raises and promotions, flew down members of the C-Suite, promised they wouldn't ever have to work for that Director ever again, etc... until they just settled it - this person got like three years worth of severance. Since this person was an expert he/she was working again after taking a couple weeks vacation at a better company making better money and much happier - the worker never had ANY intention of coming back and honestly just strung the whole thing out for as much time and money as possible because it was quite hilarious to everyone who knew about it.
During my tenure I noticed the same pattern, every time. People were let go by the person to whom they directly reported. That Manager/Director/VP invariably had no idea it was going to happen until just moments before having to do it. I had discussions about it with several, and they're people I trust to tell me the truth of things. I moved several times so I saw this happen at different locations.
If it was an office that didn't have an HR presence, the firing Management person would get a phone call from HR with their SVP or EVP explaining the legality and procedures involved and then being told to get to it. That is, unless it was a mass firing - in which case sometimes representatives from HR and Legal would fly down the night before and be in the office first thing (after calling the Manager to let them know they needed to be in there). At no time ever did I see an HR or Legal person ever get involved or say a word when they were present - they don't want to be the "bad guy".
It is definitely hard on a management type to have to do this to most of their reports, I say most because sometimes people just need to be gotten rid of, but it's especially hard when it's someone they have bonded with or worked with for many years. So I respect that part of it, it's usually not directly their fault.
I'm sure this is how most companies do things these days - just remember that HR is NOT THERE TO HELP YOU. HR is there to protect the company.
I can only tell you from my experience. I had a call scheduled with my immediate manager (standing meeting). This was after the shelter in place order was in place and I was WFH. On the webex when I joined was my manager and her director. The director didn't say anything but my manager was apparently just reading a script. It only lasted a few minutes and I was gone. My final day was a week or so after and during that time I was able to access email/MS Teams, but told not to log into the network. Although I met with a coworker to discuss a project I was working on that they inherited. I was not able to get to the office until several weeks later to pick up personal items. It was all pretty civilized frankly.
I was laid off recently. As we were working from home, my manager and the CTO had a video call with me. They were both very professional and respectful. The CTO commented on an action I had taken that he would never forget (in a positive way). They outlined the basics of what would be coming.
You may not believe it, but giving bad news to an employee with whom you've worked is hard on the manager as well.
I cannot complain about the way my layoff was handled by my supervisor and skip level. I've never seen a situation where someone was laid off by HR. I've never fired anyone, but I would assume HR handles that situation for legal reasons.
Interesting responses.. All seem to be immediate termination. I thought they may say your last day is June 30th etc.. and give you time to transition out.
Inhumane layoff practices are pretty common - not just at Allscripts. At one company we were sent an email to report to a (very large) conference room. There we were met by HR reps and security guards.
We were given our paperwork, a brief speech by the VP and then escorted back to our cubes by the security guards to gather our personal belonging. It made us feel like criminals.
A suit shows up, proceeds to an unoccupied office, your phone will ring. If you don't answer, you'll receive an email. Then you'll be escorted out.
In my experience the person's direct manager gave them the bad news. Which is not great but the fair thing to do.
It is not possible for your manager to do the RIF if they are also part of it.
Random, vague meeting appears on your calendar. Go into room with HR or manager (I’ve seen it happen both ways). You’re informed you are fired and then someone is waiting to escort you out of the building. You are allowed to grab some personal belongings like purse/wallet/keys. Everything else packed up for you and picked up at later time. If you forget something, you aren’t allowed to come in to get it. An escort walks it out to you. This was my experience in services anyways after numerous layoff rounds.
It's a callous process but they're just trying to show some quick financial improvement. Unfortunately they're going about this the wrong way. Getting rid of the ones that do the work and expecting to keep Revenue coming in is completely backwards.