10% of CDKi to go - The cull has started
1479 replies (most recent on top)
I wouldn't get out of bed for 30K
How do you afford to live on £30k?
Honestly unless your house is paid off and no kids
Is this UK?
Life in the UK I am sure you need 100k just to survive, holidays, food, bills
manager at 250, I find it hard to believe, surely you wouldnt even get even half that!!
@8wyp a bit of background. I’ve been here for more than 15 years. And yes I’m in product and yes I’m a manager, but that doesn’t mean that my current title is “Product Manager”. Also I have been a high performer most of my career at Keyloop/CDK and that rightfully have given me some good salary increases.
Remember that there are big differences in the pay between eg. Europe/Canada and India/Asia, which is why we are moving more and more jobs towards the cheap labour markets.
Just a last comment regarding the yearly compensation review. As a manager you get a predefined purse of coins you can hand out. So if you wanna reward someone who have done a great job, you have to not reward someone else. This is why I as a manager hope that not all in my team exceeds expectations, because I simply wouldn’t be able to reward all the good work then….
That product manager is 100% lying to get a reaction
@8wws 29,730 GBP gross. Europe
@8ww8 UK median full‑time earnings are £36k per year. I would ask for a pay rise.
The product manager (below) is pushing cr-p products, which probably don't work and is creaming circa £250 K.
That figure is encroaching minimum wage. Typical example of exploitation at it's finest.
I'm a former manager and can say that pay is not even or fair at any level. My old team had high performers unable to get more because they were at top of band, with others more than 10k lower doing the same job. HR will knock back any sensible requests for pay increase or high grading on a review .
bottom of the barrel. 20 plus years. no bonus. under 30k
I’m a manager in Product, a tier below SLT level, and my compensation package is approx. £250k if bonus is paid 100%. Bonus is 20% of that compensation package.
Let's talk about salaries. There is nothing to say we are unable to discuss what we earn. Or would we be too embarrassed to disclose?
As a former HR employee at Keyloop, I am eager to see how Keyloop will adopt and comply with (EU) 2023/970, which is an EU directive on pay, its structure and transparency, which comes into force next year. I don't know if the structure and transparency have improved since I was there, but if not, I can only urge you to report this to the nearest authority or workers' council.
Want to know more?
https://arlettipartners.com/eu-directive-2023-970-strengthen-equal-pay-and-pay-transparency/
The truth is written in the balance sheets, compare it with those of the competition...no one will speak to you more clearly, everything else is manipulation...and unfortunately the competition is winning by a landslide...
@8vkt choose the job centre then… find another job if you’re not happy.
Choose Keyloop Life. Choose a sh1te job. Choose a sh1te career. Choose the Keyloop family. Choose a £ucking big television, choose washing machines, mobile phones and electric cars. Choose good health, low cholesterol and denplan insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends, play your enemies. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suite on hire purchase in a range of £ucking fabrics. Choose Keyloop and wondering who the £u-k you are and have become on a Monday morning. Choose Stress. Choose a dead end job with no career path. Choose Keyloop's toxic culture and management. Choose happy clapping. Choose sitting at a desk at home watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing Teams meetings, stuffing £ucking junk food and Keyloop biscuits into your mouth. Choose a non existent bonus. Choose being given the workload of your redundant colleagues. Choose no training. Choose no support. Choose systems and policies not fit for purpose. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last money in a miserable job at Keyloop, seeing your salary diminish year on year, watching all your colleagues sh&t on from a height, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, £ucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose India. Choose Vietnam. Choose your future. Choose Keyloop life…...............
For those of you who are not familiar with the term “Quiet firing”, used widely by Keyloop, read this article:
https://lawhive.co.uk/knowledge-hub/employment-law/quiet-firing/
Another swivel-eyed yank lunatic selling vapourware, that’s what we need. What could possibly go wrong?
The vast majority of tech companies have people in India, also, the percentage of support people based in India is less than 5% so I think your source is incorrect
@8thx if war broke out, dont think anybody anywhere will be investing, bit if a stupid comment
I've heard Keyloop now has a large part of its support staff in India.
If a war ever broke out between russia and the west which looks more and more likely every day, India would most certainly side with russia, this is potentially a massive risk factor for any potential buyer.
I know some companies are relocating support to more neutral locations such as Vietnam and the Philippines. China would also be a massive risk.
So to protect their golden salaries, from the now evident failure of their management, they fire the poor workers. Congratulations, that's "accountability"!!!
AM Live once again showing the keyloop stand is empty and everyone flocking to the competition. They will say they were packed but if you are here you can see the shambles in front of you. Customers hate them with a passion so many are openly stating their dissatisfaction. Muppets
The prevailing business model appears to be one of strategic ATTRITION. A slow, deliberate thinning of the workforce under the guise of operational efficiency. Meanwhile, the diligent employees, are expected to shoulder increasing workloads under mounting pressure, all while compensation stagnates.
In contrast, the coffers of incentivised managers and HR executives, who receive incentivised payments for terminations swell, funneling ever more into the bottomless vault of Kilroy’s empire, a system that rewards extraction over equity.
@8shd
Yep welcome to a business that last year delayed merit rises by 6 months so they fell into a Jan to Dec cycle. This year the KLT/ELT cant even confirm if we will have them back dated to Jan - (yet to be decided!) Reviews will be completed by year end but the internal process doesn't allow them to be actioned until March. Everyone assumed a back date.
This type of behaviour is damaging to employee relations and comes at a time when there is significantly more pressure on everyone to do more with less than they need.
I feel sorry for the people at OEC who eventually will transition into Keyloop, and end up working under the horrendous domain structure. But yet again a clear sign that Keyloop doesn’t have any visionary product and engineering people, forcing FP to acquire another company.
GOOD. I am glad they failed and keep failing. Any dismissal is bad for all employees and company culture. We all know that the loss of jobs means more pressure being put on individuals and our colleagues.
You don't have the skills to even handle a simple dismissal, you id--ts, you risk causing yourselves incalculable damage.
Since ATG acquisition, HR has been an absolute abomination. Burn the witches I say
@8qts tell him to get rid of ELT, SLT and HR if he want to succeed.
You got 5 minutes in a room with Tom Kilroy. What do you say, what do you do?
Hit me up b1tch3s
I only knows that in multiple countries (with a high cost index) where one particular DMS operates, there have been a great deal of redundancies since summer. Sales, Engineering and Product have lost people, probably with more to come.
So yes, it’s looking like yet another sale of the portfolio to trim for the big FP sale next year.
Talking about cash and run, the other day I overheard some ELT members talking about an upcoming sale of one of the pan-eurpean DMS’.
Anyone know anything?
Took the cash and ran
@8hns How did you get on with the solicitor?
How many apps went down yesterday due to Aws failure, eggs in one basket not a great move
AWS is the future!
@8nzs
Please Read Posts before replying
This was in response to people complaining about being audited in the post I was replying to which informs Reviews but are current and on going not every six months.
"But that doesn’t mean we should shy away from being audited or measured on the quality of our work and overall output."
Kind of underlines the point!
@8nzk Not having a performance review is a local management issue that you need to take up with your manager or your managers manager.
@8nvs
There’s no denying that CE are overwhelmed, overworked, pulled in multiple competing directions, and are underpaid. (Like everyone!)
But that doesn’t mean we should shy away from being audited or measured on the quality of our work and overall output. In fact, we should expect it. Without performance reviews, how the he-l can anyone know where they need to improve or even that they’re doing well?
This should be standard practice in any role, in any business. Lately, some of Gen Z have pushed back against performance metrics, claiming they’re too stressful. Yet these same individuals demand excellent service from everyone they interact with—and that only comes from having clear, measurable goals that are measured.
They should obvs be fair and consistent. But let’s be honest: we all work with people who do very little or do it poorly. Some of the customer conversations I overhear in the office are appalling, and some written communications don’t reflect a professional business.
Customer service in the UK has declined in recent years, largely due to the lack of effective performance measurement.
So bring it on—I’m happy to be audited. I do my best, and I want that to be recognised. If I need to improve, I want to know.
You cant moan about the world around you and then hide your head in the sand listening to your internal voice telling it all their fault how is all them and not you.
You need a balanced external view
@8nrp Indeed CDK was at 90% but Keyloop targets 80% readiness, it's worth noting that no software launches at 100%. However, knowingly releasing incomplete products to secure contracts—then neglecting the resulting surge in support cases—undermines both customer trust and internal morale. Bonuses may be met, but those dealing directly with customers are left to manage the fallout.
Years ago, we were told our most valuable asset was our data and its commercial potential. That narrative has disappeared—presumably because FP got what they needed. Now, the focus is entirely on Fusion.
Fusion’s concept and design are promising, and internal restructuring seems logical. Yet the product remains immature—more theory than practice—and still relies on an underfunded DMS that desperately needs overhaul. Support teams report increased case volumes, not fewer, and many early-adopter customers are threatening to leave due to unresolved issues.
A friend in Customer Enablement shared that their team is under intense pressure—constant monitoring, relentless audits, and competing priorities. Even basic triage processes have become unnecessarily complex, driven more by appearances than actual results. Leadership would be better served by tackling one major issue decisively, rather than spreading efforts thin and achieving little.
In our own area, attrition is rising. Stretched thin like all areas, and many people have stopped going the extra mile. Loyalty has gone unrewarded for years, and decisions now seem driven by spreadsheets rather than people or customer.
When you put your people first, they’ll put your customers first. Satisfied customers drive positive business outcomes, which in turn enable investment back into your people. It’s an old business principle—but one of the few that consistently stands the test of time. Unlike the the Wizard of Oz (if you know, you know)
90% of the cdk product portfolio was not perfect and full of gaps, this is not new. Understand the view but there are customers that are using the software and rolling it out aggressively so must meet some of their business requirements, no?