Thread regarding DeVry Inc. layoffs

12nji: This action on the part of PV might simply be a response to the recent inquiry process initiated by Senators Elizabeth Warren and Mark Pocan looking into private equity firm holdings of for-profit schools. I’m just a faculty member, and consequently have no idea what the he** is really going on at this university through all of the manipulative communication and gaslighting, but I could see where Palmer would understandably want to remove DVU from the PV web site to be more discreet and just lay low in light of this recently publicized nascent “investigative initiative.” As if this job hasn’t already become ridiculously precarious and nearly impossible to do, the internal and external threats just keep on coming. We all should have left long ago.

After being featured prominently on Palm Venture's website as an "investment", I noticed today that DeVry is no longer to be found listed there. There must be some reason why it was there, and now isn't. Any ideas?

Loan? By providing some initial working capital in the transfer deal, it seems to me Adtalem paid to PV something more akin to a dowry to take DVU off Adtalem’s hands.

Anyone question who is paying for DeVry's advertisements? Adtalem did make a $10 million "loan" to PV ventures after all. If it is the intention of PV to close the enterprise, why would they spend any of their own money to advertise to keep it going?

I think the younger professors (late thirties and forties) knew they needed to move on from this and probably had a better shot at being hired elsewhere.

This. I was in this category. Once I saw how bad things had gotten I decided to build up my resume with adjuncting and then try to move on. It tool about four years all together to find a new position. The academic job market is tight and there are relatively few full-time faculty positions with increasingly challenging requirements. It did seem like an uphill battle due to DVU’s poor ethical reputation at the time of the FTC suit. I was at DVU for about two decades before I moved on...and so very glad I did. Even though I do have some stress in my new role elsewhere, I feel that my environment is more rewarding now and I am more satisfied when I tell people where I currently work. I do wish the best for anyone still there. DVU had been good to me for a long time, but I had reached the limit of what stress and administrative nonsense I was able to tolerate.

Aokr–"if all of these professors were ten years older than they are today they would have already registered for Social Security and Medicare, submitted resignations, and never looked back. It’s simply gotten too hard and it’s been insanely precarious for an awfully long time."

That was the case for me: I saw with little consequence that retirement would not be more costly than continuing to work, and I happily said, "Bye, Felisha."

A valid question, though perhaps it’s rhetorical. The pattern I’ve noticed is that a substantial number of the younger employees, generally admissions and student support staff, tend to quit early and often. Only a few of these people seem to stick around. Our professors, on the other hand, are now mostly well into their fifties or sixties, consequently limiting their reasonable options at this point. There have been some notable voluntary departures recently among professors, though a few were younger than the average age, putting them in a different situation. Strategically speaking, I think the younger professors (late thirties and forties) knew they needed to move on from this and probably had a better shot at being hired elsewhere. Then there’s the rest. As discussed in earlier postings on this site, in the current work environment many, if not most, of the remaining professors would likely depart immediately except for financial challenges posed by the timing of collecting Social Security, Medicare, and other factors relating to their age. These people probably need just a few more years of work, if that. My guess is, hypothetically, if all of these professors were ten years older than they are today they would have already registered for Social Security and Medicare, submitted resignations, and never looked back. It’s simply gotten too hard and it’s been insanely precarious for an awfully long time.

I don’t understand what keeps the remaining staff motivated there, while not having the slightest idea how the company is doing, or how students are doing post graduation.

Looking back over this series of comments, perhaps the recent rumors and supposed organizational precursors people have been reading into were all along actually indications or artifacts of the backroom planning that led up to this past week’s IT department “m—acre” rather than the theorized complete shutdown? Not saying there won’t ultimately be a teachout, but that may still be several moves further down the line.

This might be more true than we realize. Metro IT Staff (35 employees) is in the process of being laid off by early Fall (October). IT Support is being outsourced to Stefanini.

The canaries are all dead, so now what do we do? Most of us understand the tenuous situation and strained environment we’re in, but who here knows what’s really going to happen? Transparency has not been a defining characteristic of this organization. If anything, management has perfected the art of the ‘big reveal.’

And your professors, who against their own sense of decency and ethics repeatedly badgered you to submit late assignments, awarded you full point credit for your eventual substandard, poor quality submissions, and dutifully logged the required number of “personalized” IFF messages to verbally coddle you like a fawning nanny, all thank you for graciously applying your supreme power over us, granted you by DVU management, by your reciprocation with the high ratings you in turn bestowed upon us on our end-of-course evaluations. By adhering to this unspoken contract between you, the ill-prepared and incapable student, and we, the ever-fearful and disrespected faculty, you have provided irrefutable evidence regarding the high quality of our teaching, and we have again been temporarily pardoned, avoiding management’s wrath and the axe for another term as we feverishly scramble to return to this slog and jostle each other for position in next semester’s contest of course evaluation rankings. Our heartfelt congratulations on earning the piece of paper that validates your accomplishment, and with that the value proposition has been fulfilled.

And after all is said and done–after the quick 'n dirty BA, out of which you learned nothing and improved incrementally toward literacy, and after the equally quick 'n dirty Master's during which you were still remedial, after lawyering through and getting these worthless degrees by hook or by crook, your life has not palpably changed. For you did not get the respect of failure, the respect of genuine remediation. You did not want it, and no one wanted to give it to you because adult remediation, if not impossible, has so far eluded adult learners and teachers alike. But you (or someone) paid your money and you got your ticket. Welcome to the Cheese Factory.

Then you can return to school again to complete your MBA and add another $30K worth of debt to proudly hold the same worthless graduate degree as legions of other people who doubled down believing a generic masters degree would set them apart.

Value proposition: Get your college degree, like millions of other people, and you too can get a white collar job so you can securely inhabit the middle class.

What exactly is DeVry's value proposition to students these days?

I’m a faculty member, and Matt’s documented chronology of the organization’s phased downfall over the past two decades is pretty much how I remember it, along with the collective stress it’s caused colleagues, including current profs now “stranded” or trapped on what continues to feel like a sinking ship with the last of the lifeboats long gone. He’s thinking it’s all over within five years, though that may be optimistic. Many of us would probably be thankful to have this paycheck preserved for another five years, but in private conversations most of us are not counting on it.

Poor Matt! Looks like he may have finally run out of ideas for his academic blog. Why didn’t he tell us what the ex-DeVridians were eating? The world waits to know....

Interesting reading; https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/confessions-community-college-dean/devry-reunion-picnic

The lack of accurate enrollment/financial information is a deliberate strategy on the part of DV management. This strategy is a continuation of fraudulent misrepresentation about career placement. DV is still an unethical and borderline criminal organization. I am suspecting that the blackout will be maintained until the day DV closes its doors, which will come with no prior warning.

cuwa: I think there’s a lot to be said for your analogy with the retail industry, at least from the perspective of how financial and infrastructure issues might be managed to control costs. However, to really assess where things currently stand with the university’s liquidity and profitability, what management actions might be on the horizon, and when, we would need reasonably accurate information regarding the student population (is it about 18,000?), along with a look at the latest income statement in tandem with the cash budget (projections). I have no clue about any of these, but I’ll bet somebody out there reading this comment chain probably does. You can also be sure PV is watching these numbers closely, but they’re not talking and we’re no longer a public company with published financials. The point is that we what we’re reading in this forum seems to be a lot of conjecture rather than informed opinion.

I don't smell anything that's any different from what other retailers (and other colleges) want to do in the future, say, when recession hits in 2020 or later. A 'retail apocalypse' will see a massive pull-back from high-rent, closing doors after Christmas sales. DeVry must address loss ratios and predictably push online as the primary tool to get or keep students enrolled fast during a recession. No different from what retail chains do; focus online, wipe the physical plant off the books, live to fight another day. This can easily be a zombie for years to come, because Cogswell can churn out a piddly 89 graduates to call it a day. DeVry's operating costs, as it is, absolutely cannot.

Schools whose recruitment materials are based on lies and prevarications, whose admissions policies have no selectivity, whose promises to students implied or explicit cause them to make choices that saddle them with debt, whose goals are to bilk funds from students and taxpayers–deserve any law suits brought against them, regardless of for-profit or not-for-profit status, public or private.

Education across the realm has long suffered commodification baked into the business paradigm.

7frt...I saw this...and it makes me wonder if this whole DV dissolving business is premature:

http://newsroom.devry.edu/news/devry-university-holds-grand-opening-for-new-ontario-center.htm

@10aKwm0e-7frt, it may not be long before people start suing non-profit colleges. At least one is under federal investigation.

Plenty of traditional colleges advertise and aggressively recruit students who don’t make it through or end up not getting into their fantasy jobs for a multitude of reasons, yet we’re not hearing much about lawsuits from people waiting tables who paid a bunch of money to some overpriced private college. That’s unfortunately the current state of higher ed and why so many people question the value of a college degree today, not just a DeVry degree (for whom many of its grads over the years have had very successful careers). As far as the $100M payment, that was also a classic shakedown, as anyone with extensive business experience and detailed knowledge of the broader set of facts could discern at the time. Ever been sued unjustly? You’ve probably been in business, and I’ve known plenty of businesses that paid the money rather than bear greater legal expense over the long run while suffering the ongoing distraction of fighting. But this specific story, whatever the full set of facts really are (beyond what you see in print), is another red herring.

So back to the question at hand, any thoughts on the internal situation from people who are informed?

Shakedown? I don't think so–if that person had gotten the job she'd anticipated, I doubt a suit would have been brought forward. Truth: DeVry under Adtalem lied about their employment record. They also claimed, incidentally, anyone who came in with a job as part of their (DeVry's) successful rate of employing their graduates. They routinely admitted (and continue to do so) anyone seeking admission, regardless of ability to succeed. The 100 million was disbursed among so many, it amounted to very little for individuals. While DeVry admitted so many illiterate/innumerate (and mostly poor and desperate) students, bilking hundreds of millions in grants and loans, I wonder how the mothers of those in leadership positions feel–they must be so proud.

Yes, having read that piece it looks like old news about what appears to be a classic moneygrab move by a legal firm seeking out and cultivating an aggrieved plaintiff to initiate a class action for generating revenue. This kind of attempted shakedown happens to plenty of businesses - welcome to America. Tort lawyers: their mothers must be so proud.

Now, back to the topic at hand...

7krs...this looks like old news...

https://www.boston25news.com/news/education/devry-university-hit-with-5m-lawsuit-alleging-deceptive-claims/938786801

Thanks for sharing a bit of your own personal story with us, 4nop. Despite your financial pressures, it reminds us there’s something to be said for living each day with integrity and freedom from abuse in a toxic environment.

My 401K was not ample, and I must work. I am a home owner, with enough retirement funds for basic bills, but no surprises, please–can't afford 'em. If the car fails, I must go without a car. If the roof fails, I must invest in buckets. Yet, I was no better off while employed. I am happier without having to subject myself to atrocious behaviors of supervisors. My p/t job suits me fine.

3guj: To your recent point, many faculty are dismayed at how we came to this place and what we’ve become - ‘The Island of Misfit Professors.’ And getting back to the main thrust of this current dialogue, perhaps a quickly announced teach-out would be in the best interest of all, despite the semi-poverty some of us will likely endure in the coming years due to premature retirement. I do believe some colleagues would welcome the transparency of such an announcement to end the ongoing uncertainty and bring a clear sense of finality to the last of us who remain. After all, they shoot horses, don’t they?

Back in 2012, when f/t faculty were asked to perform admissions' and registrar's tasks, many saw where the thinning admin ranks would lead: faculty would take on more and more administrivia. There has always been a tacit disrespect for those with legitimately earned terminal degrees. DeVry continues to suffer Woody Allen syndrome–despising anyone who would join them in their land of misfit toys and, therefore, diminishing any record or achievement.

3huu...sources say...4-6...Chicago area

Academic technologists were fired? Do you mean Instructional Design (ID) staff who help develop course shells? How many of these? From what many of us have seen, shell development continues.

2szs...I used to spend a lot of time with people who did intelligence analysis for a living. One thing they'll tell you is that you're never completely right or completely wrong. It's all about percentages; probabilities. I think after reading

• DeVry's physical footprint in shrinking, in line with declining onsite enrollments
• a slow and steady reduction in faculty/staff...a number of Academic Technologists were let go late last week
• the insistence that faculty create more off an online presence even for their remaining onsite students
• and hearing that in the last few days several regularly scheduled meetings involving people up the chain were postponed in order to attend hastily called conferences...

you might need to move the teach-out in 2020 out of the rumor category and into the probability category. My hunch is that the teach-out will affect all on-site courses. Too much overhead involved for too little return. Faculty, which have already been training on and using online technology, will shift to online and will remain there for the near term.

Yes, most of us agree “the end of this story was written long ago” when we exited our niche, and that this organization is a dead man walking. However, back to the initial point here, can anyone corroborate that a management decision has been inked such that at the end of 2019, just months away, a shutdown announcement will be released? For many faculty, it’s the timing of the closure that’s the key point of interest, and whether the decision has already been made to cut out at year’s end. That’s the question about this rumor.

When the school turned away from focusing on outcomes and quality programs and instead on monitoring its employees, it became corrupt. It will continue on until enough employees no longer put up with that.

Consider the following before you dismiss anything. Since acquiring it, Cogswell has been unloading DVU's physical footprint. It no longer has headquarters in a luxury office building in Downers Grove, Il. It no longer occupies prime campus space in a nearby office complex. All of that has been shoehorned into a building which at one time was -and continues to be used for online operations. If they're doing that in Chicago, DVU's home, they're doing it elsewhere. Online is where the money is; onsite is turning into a money pit. So the teaching loads of many DVU professors...full and part time, reflect that. So, having done away with as much of the physical overhead as possible, a tacit acknowledgement that the onsite market is never coming back, the next area of reduction is going to be staffing. That's a story told over and over here...thinning full time ranks...filling them with adjuncts....thinning administration...having everyone double up on their duties...they're squeezing as hard as possible...and it's just possible that, after the cuts in office/classroom space and the cuts in faculty and staff, and the realization the onsite market is gone, and the online market is too competitive and will never yield the results hoped for, that just perhaps it's time to let the air out of the balloon...albeit slowly...and hope for a soft landing and not a hard crash, and give DVU a dignified though premature burial.

The other thing worth considering is the level of emotional investment on Cogswell's part. If it were really interested in making a go of this, one would expect a greater presence throughout the DVU system. The fact that doesn't seem to be happening would suggest the end of our story was written long ago...it's just being played out now. So...hiring an engineering professor or two...nice...but it's not a sustainable trend....