I just dont understand Cisco strategy of running expensive Campuses like San Jose, RTP, Boxborough, Richardson. I heard there are around 35K Blue Badge employees and may be 10 to 15K Red badge employees. I also there are lot of Folks in BU. If you see any major MNC, they are moving all back office jobs like Development, Testing which can be done anywhere to cost effective regions like India, China. Cisco should only keep Sales, Technical Support, AS and other Staff which are needed to support US customers. Most of folks in Cisco doesnt need Customer interaction so they can employed anywhere in the world. Cisco should not have more than 10K (5K Blue badge and 5K Red Badge). When you go around Sanjose, you find lot of Indians and Chinese on H1B working for cisco. If Cisco has to hire Indian and Chinese in US , they are available for lot cheaper in India and China and will work lot harder. Cisco can keep latest Technologies in US and rest of the stuff should be moved to cheaper locations. It saves lot of money. Cisco makes most of the revenue outside US. it doesnt make sense to have so many Employees in US. see IBM, HP, Dell, Intel ,Microsoft cutting their US staff and move them to India.
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We have to recognize change in world order with rise of China and India. We also need nice balance where western Economies continue to stay strong. We need real GDP growth in US/Canada, Europe, Australia/New Zealand. If Western economies falter then Countries like India/China wont have strong western markets to sell their products/Services/manpower. Also don't forget Big corporations from western world did benefit from the rise of India/China . India/China have become biggest markets for western innovations and burgeoning Middle class in this countries did boost Western MNCs to grow big. Big western Corporations reaped the benefits but didn't pass it on but common man in Western countries is losing out. Politicians in western world should not turn protectionist but have to ensure companies create good jobs.
Guys, a good thread. Let's keep it clean, it's a tricky subject and admins nuke all heated posts/replies - do not get caught in a trollish back and forth on a tangential subject.
I cannot contribute much here due to limited experience, however, I'd rather take one onshore H1B resource than two remote offshore resources. It's easier to communicate when the person is here and I REALLY HATE late night calls. It's hard to manage offshore, it's doable and when done correctly, it's cost effective, I am just telling you my personal preference - keep it simple, gimme once guy here and I am good.
Peace out...
So you can a green card.
@4dts , this is a true #GOLD post.
More than Half of banking, Insurance, Retail, enterprise, legal , Automobile, Energy, Transport, Telecommunications, robotics, Artificial intelligence, Electronics, gaming, mobile apps, animation, e-commerce related software development/Testing work is outsourced or moved to India. Indian outsourcing companies are no longer seen as low cost, low skill destinations to outsource maintenance work . Walmart actually have more than 120K developers/Testers in India just to work on their software solutions. That is like 30K US jobs outsourced if we take cost as a factor.
Big companies collaborate with this outsourcing Companies and develop software solutions according to their client needs. Why would non IT companies develop Software solutions. They will outsource them to IT firms who can ramp up on demand . It’s not easily scalable in US to scale faster. That is the main reason why Apple is assembling its I-phones in China.
All folks who are commenting about low skill labor in India have no clue who is actually writing code in the background. just go around find out how many development, QA testing jobs are available in Western countries. You don't have them in plenty.
India has 4.5 Million IT Engg’s in India and another 1 million Engg globally in US, Europe, Australia, Canada etc, . They write code for the world and develop software solutions.
Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, HP, Dell, IBM, Juniper, Ericsson, Nokia, Siemens, General Electric, Honeywell, BMW, Mercedes, General motors, Robert Bosch etc etc are not fools to open shops in Bangalore and hire people in Herds.
Some Retailers like Tesco, Target have opened captive development centers to develop Retail software for their global clients from Bangalore.
Some Banks like ANZ, HSBC, RBS , American Express, Bank of America have their own captive development centers in Chennai, Gurgaon, Pune and Bangalore. More than 2 million worth US/European jobs are outsourced or moved to India. I don’t think Low cost would be only reason. They see more value In India as global software hub. World is moving towards more software oriented economy with e-commerce, Automation and world is looking at India to meet their demands.
More than Half of banking, Insurance, Retail, enterprise, legal , Automobile, Energy, Transport, Telecommunications, robotics, Artificial intelligence, Electronics, gaming, mobile apps, animation, e-commerce related software development/Testing work is outsourced or moved to India. Indian outsourcing companies are no longer seen as low cost, low skill destinations to outsource maintenance work . Walmart actually have more than 120K developers/Testers in India just to work on their software solutions. That is like 30K US jobs outsourced if we take cost as a factor.
Big companies collaborate with this outsourcing Companies and develop software solutions according to their client needs. Why would non IT companies develop Software solutions. They will outsource them to IT firms who can ramp up on demand . It’s not easily scalable in US to scale faster. That is the main reason why Apple is assembling its I-phones in China.
All folks who are commenting about low skill labor in India have no clue who is actually writing code in the background. just go around find out how many development, QA testing jobs are available in Western countries. You don't have them in plenty.
India has 4.5 Million IT Engg’s in India and another 1 million Engg globally in US, Europe, Australia, Canada etc, . They write code for the world and develop software solutions.
Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, HP, Dell, IBM, Juniper, Ericsson, Nokia, Siemens, General Electric, Honeywell, BMW, Mercedes, General motors, Robert Bosch etc etc are not fools to open shops in Bangalore and hire people in Herds.
Some Retailers like Tesco, Target have opened captive development centers to develop Retail software for their global clients from Bangalore.
Some Banks like ANZ, HSBC, RBS , American Express, Bank of America have their own captive development centers in Chennai, Gurgaon, Pune and Bangalore. More than 2 million worth US/European jobs are outsourced or moved to India. I don’t think Low cost would be only reason. They see more value In India as global software hub. World is moving towards more software oriented economy with e-commerce, Automation and world is looking at India to meet their demands.
if you want a large mass of medium caliber programming talent , usa and india are the only options. none of the euros, canada et al have the numbers and china has its issues with IP protection and govt interference.
if you want a even larger mass of low caliber programming talent, then india.
medium + low : this is the level in which 95% of the coding work in the industry is ... for the rest 5% you can use whoever you want , even remote workers over the net and pay them whatever they ask for.
even in the BPO/KPO industry, home country locations can always deliver better service, but the people oriented nature of the industry means where do you find 10,000 bodies at a reasonable cost structure..its always advantage those countries with large populations and less salary. this might however change with increasing automation of tech support.
@3che: This recent study of top coders by country shows the US at #28 and India at #31..... Sad and sadder.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/08/30/who-would-win-the-coding-olympics/
I work in the Bay Area. In my BU:
Code quality out of India: very bad.
Code quality out of US: bad.
Code quality out of Canada: good.
Code quality out of GB: good.
Moving more work to India would be suicide.
BTW: 2 people don't write better code, they just write twice as much bad code.
its in the best interest of Cisco to "chuck" out few more folks in US to be more profitable otherwise we wont see Cisco Surviving after 3 yrs. It will be history. They can save the company by clearing the deadwood. Why we need so many G10's , G11's, G12's, Directors/Sr.Dr/VPs/SVPs in San Jose. they are just too expensive. Kick them out. Move jobs to India. Why hire so many L1B's/H1B's for 100K or more USD in SJ, when same folks can be hired for less than 25K USD in India.
OP must be one of Ma's lackeys. Yet, the OP and Ma have a point which a lot of Americans don't want to hear. Glad I'm retiring soon. Wish I got LRd, but alas the grim reaper just passed by the old lazy-a--.
you wont have Republican president for next 20 yrs due to demographic changes. GOP is dead and Obama support TPP, free trade, WTO. Clinton's Signed NAFTA and support outsourcing. They dont want to lose Asian American Votes. it seems like American appears to be Rich but it wont produce anything and innovate anything. All new age jobs are not created in US -->They are moving to India/China/Taiwan/Vietnam/Ireland/Japan. American is not only Superpower which drives the World economy. We have China with $10 Trillion and India $ 3 Trillion GDPs and many other emerging markets which have been contributing heavily to revenues for American MNCs. American MNCs no longer need to be headquartered in US. even If US politicians adopt Protectionist policies, it might only result in 10% corrosion of US based MNCs profits. Apple sells most of their Cell Phones Outside US. Cisco sells most of their products outside US.
@1wfh: I wouldn't be so sure.....
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57c8a6a7e4b0e60d31de6433
We don't need to know English to support our global customer's. English is not even spoken in 90% of countries. If cisco want jobs in US then they should do business only in US. Good chuck is kicking all top grades in San Jose and moving jobs to India. Way too costly to retain them. Globalisation is irreversible and US cannot protect its jobs with rhetoric. If Indian and Chinese have to do work in cisco US, bwletter Chuck Robbins can get them for 5 times cheaper in India ad china and labor laws are very favorable for MNCS. APAC is the growth engine.
Your writing skills are evidence enough that Cisco should not outsource everything to India and China. Also, your comment that workers in India and China "work lot harder" is laughable (not because of your poor writing skills, but because it is flat out not true).
FYI- I have tremendous respect for people who learn English as a second language, so I am not making fun of you for that reason. Your attitude that you are superior to Americans simply because greedy executives move work to third world countries for cheap labor reasons makes me a bit irritated.
hahahah.. you wish.. Cisco is an american company.
I agree with OP. Corporate America is way too much bloated. I do not agree about farming out work to other countries either. Reduce price charged to customers with reduced workforce.
You could be Cisco's CEO.