I recently picked up bowling and joined a league. But my manager loses it if I miss his calls after work hours. I’m not on call, not getting paid, but somehow still “expected to help” because I’m the team's youngest. He hinted I should only bowl on weekends if I care about my performance and my career growth. I am not going to glue myself on teams 24/7 for a single digit raise. Why is it never enough no matter how much we give? Do I really have to give up my hobbies just to keep my job here? Could be worse, right? I would lose it if he made me work on weekends, that’s for certain…
87 replies (most recent on top)
OP what did you end up doing?
Try to move in a new team. You’ll look back and it will be a blip, like yeah i had that one bad experience.. and that’s it. You’ll forget about your current team soon enough.
@29x that just complicates further, OP sounds young and we don't know what their situation is like, what if they just joined and went all in on this company? Moving/Rent/Utilities/Loans etc.
Quitting sounds difficult unless they have another job lined up.. which is hard when you just started your career and it already looks like you're trying to jump while employed.
Unless you mean quit the bowling league, I don't see how quitting is a viable solution.
They also say "keep their job" which allows you to infer that they're in a vulnerable position.
Not so simple
just quit
yes
@w3 are you the same guy here? Post ID: @jg+1k2d3ecb7
@vs I’m not new! Do you think they’re going to come back and say “oh yeah that was a hostile environment” or “sorry the way HR treated you was wrong”.
@te Did you by chance seek help from Ford? HR / Speak Up?
@vc First time?
If they demand more than normal, you need to ask for equitable pay to deal with bullsh-t. Bullsh-t fee. If you try to solve interpersonal issues and to no avail, go for pay. Start quantifying and making your case for equitable pay. If you're paid to deal with bullsh-t, you'll feel a little better. Mitigation.
@h0 First time?
I loved this company once. But in the past few years, I’ve needed medication just to get through the workday. It helps, but my health has declined, I’ve battled prescription dependence, lost connection with family and friends, lost my joy in life, and even my general willingness to keep going.
You may not have an interest in giving up bowling, but Ford has in interest in you giving up bowling. They mess with your personal life. I bet you're not getting paid equitably either. They only do this to people who try to have integrity and also take pride in work.. They abuse our trust in them.
@OP Worked there 15 years and retired. For my jobs, all 3 of them, 24/7. I missed, birthdays, anniversaries, vacations. Retired as LL6. Your health suffers. Money was decent, but if I was a younger person working there, I would move on.
https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/news/ford-in-hot-soup-faces-misconduct-allegations-from-23yo-whistleblower/3894949/
@e9 I feel like they should tell the FBI or the U.S. Attorney Eastern District of Michigan. If that seems shaky, they could try to an out-of-state watchdog / inspector general.
Son, did anyone ever point out the fact that your a d-mb a$$? Because if they didn't, they sure didn’t do you any favors.
Talk to HR. That’s not normal.
My previous partner started thinking I was cheating on her because of irrational work hours and commitments here… it wasn’t even insecurity on her part tbh.. i think it sounded stupid coming out of my mouth when I’d explain it to her.. I started questioning if these expectations were normalized anywhere else, which of course, they were not
@fw theirs*
If you can’t defend your own interests, why would anyone trust you with yours?
@f8 Worst fu--ing advice. Please refrain from advising ppl. Don’t normalize this kind of behavior. U know nothing John snow⛷️
@fm I’m not saying that I would like it. I’m just saying I would do what I think is necessary to keep my job in this bad job market while I find another job.
There is no need to abuse me for expressing this opinion. Don’t follow this if you think it’s bad.
I graduated into the 2008 recession and colleagues who argued with their managers were laid off in 2009, while I kept my job despite having a less impressive resume. I did the work that the ones who got laid off were less willing to do. I think that’s why I was the only early career person not laid off. It has definitely shaped my opinion.
In 2021 yeah you can push back, or if you are some sort of specialized engineer, etc. I am not an engineer nor is my skillset so valuable and rare that others cannot do it.
I am a woman with sick family members to support, so that makes me more compliant.
@f8 I’d like to hire you. Tell me your TC and I’ll add 0.1% to it so I can have you as my indentured servant. I’ll tell you in the interviews that the job is 10x better than your current job, so you’ll have no idea what you are getting into. Let’s see how you like it.
@fj Good luck with that because I’m not a man and I’m behind on my own household chores
I’m going to put a collar on @fh and have him perform my household chores.
@f8 Yes you need to do what your manager wants in order to keep your current job. Always possible to jump teams or companies, but in the short term I would bring my laptop to bowling.
It would be different if it were a great job market right now, but it’s not.
yoo which org? toxicity is a value here. do not give up your hobbies, find a way to give up your manager
I had a manager at Ford when I started my career out of grad school who tried to give me work on nights and weekends because I was the youngest and didn’t have any kids.
Absolutely push back and/or find a new team or job elsewhere. This behavior is unacceptable.
Just because you don’t have children, or are younger, doesn’t mean your free time belongs to anyone else. You have human rights.
This is unfortunately a legitimate pattern. I used to work at Ford and my manager there did the same. We ended up getting into a yelling match right before I was to go on a date - it wasn’t even for an outage or anything, it was literally just to sync on a project, when we could have easily synced during the workday.
I left a few months later. Current manager is pretty chill, I have no problems with him
You should listen to your body and mind when they tell you something is wrong.
"He hinted I should only bowl on weekends if I care about my performance and my career growth"
Deal-- don't care about performance or career growth. If they're unhappy then pip or fire you. Then you can bowl on weekdays too.
If there are any red flags like this, you would be doing yourself a good service if you prep your resume, prep for interviews, and be ready to enforce your boundaries and leave if needed
@f5 Bro you are a re--rd. Don’t be d-mb, work hard or lose your job. Most people accept 1 non-negotiable, weekly date with SO, league game, religious event etc. you get ONE. Communicate it to your manager and they’ll probably respect it. If not, just be happy you aren’t part of the 10% of people your age without a job right now
Sorry bro but you're soft as heck.
29 years in and pretty successful career and didn't roll over and show my belly anytime someone barked at me.
@f5 Oh also, they started to think I have a second job… I don’t!!! They’re spreading rumors
@dn This is OP. For context, I’m a GS5 since I don’t have an MBA. What do I do if my boss won’t budge and retaliates instead?
Forced labor indicators often intersect and overlap, feeding into each other. Some signs may be more subtle than others. For instance, the individual could fall into debt during the recruitment process, compounded by an employer who takes unexpected deductions from their pay. The worker then cannot repay their debt as quickly as they had anticipated, falling further into debt bondage as a result of both deception and withholding of wages. Does an individual appear to be monitored when talking to or interacting with others? Are they living in dangerous, overcrowded, or inhumane lodging provided by an employer? Are they isolated, physically or culturally? A “yes” to any of these questions could indicate a potential forced labor situation.
Indicators of forced labor may take place at any point during the recruitment and employment process. Forced labor could begin during the worker’s recruitment process to force the acceptance of the job, to deceive the worker into an exploitative job, or to create a situation of debt bondage by charging recruitment fees that are virtually impossible for the workers to repay. Once the person is working, an employer may also force, defraud, or coerce the victim to perform work not agreed to at the time of recruitment. A worker may agree to do a job, find the conditions are not what were expected and agreed upon, but be prevented from leaving the job by their employer.
https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/forced-labor
@ez keep calm and carry on
@es what do you try that and it gets worse and your tech anchor gets newly appointed, a person without any domain expertise… starts 247 leaching off you to survive for his own incompetence.. most likely orchestrated my manager by proxy? Him and the tech anchor are friends and when I repotted it, my supervisor said that is pure arrogance and the tech anchor is my senior and I wasn’t like this before? I feel so much shame and sadness… then he started alienating me further and telling me my coworkers don’t want to work with me… the same ones that are leaching off me? I recently learned the word double bind… it makes me fear speaking up again… they went really hard at me :((?( I’m also not allowed days off, with them citing “pivotal times” and that I’m needed :((((( what do I do? When I tried to communicate with hr, she started disciplining me for the hour making stuff up… I tried a couple times and each time it just got worse and I never got to focus on the real issues? What do I do??? :( leaving would be hard because I went all in and invested hard work here and really feel trapped
Everything is about setting boundaries at the beginning. The idea is not to be inflexible, because sh-t happens. Both parties, employer and employee, should adjust for mutual benefits. However, there is a big difference between an emergency, and your manager wasting your time.
If a manager ever dares to ask me why I didn't pick up my phone, and I doubt there is one crazy enough for that, the answer will be that is MY DAMN PHONE. I pay it, and I choose when to answer it. Also, I am not interested in Ford picking my phone tab. However, if my position requires to be On Call, I am expecting to be compensated for carrying a Ford's phone, besides any time used to answer it. In that case, and I have been there, I was called on birthdays, holidays and weekends. Part of the job.
So the first thing to do is check your contract, and what responsibilities are expected of you. If you signed a poor contract, there is not much to do: just find a new job. If you have a decent contract, then you stand by it. No On Call on the contract, you cannot be called unless there is an emergency. BTW, I would discuss with the manager what are the possible "emergencies".
Post ID: @sg+1k23w7nfx